The secret of Houdini

[Sedat Canbaz]

The secret of Houdini chess engine is that it uses all the physical memory of your computer.It's not a chess engine as the other ones but a speedhack engine.Simply when you open task manager you see houdini is running.But you don't see that houdini is running in high priority.This is the internal Houdini hack.Make an experiment.Try to arrange an engine match between Critter 1.4a and Houdini 2.0C on Arena interface for example.Before starting the match,go to your task manager and switch Critter to high Priority.Then start the match.Critter is superior in speed too and manages to beat Houdini with a narrow margin

Just my 2 cents over this issue

Sorry,but i have different view than yours

The bellow standings are based/played between each other on different separate PCs

And as we see, Houdini is still the world's number one engine

http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/july-december-2011/
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/scct-auto232/
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/ratings/scct-auto232/



Greetings,
Sedat

1)Where is Strelka? 2)This classification has nothing to do with my theory:)

Actually i already tested Strelka 5.1:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/ratings/scct-auto232/
28 Strelka 5.1 x64 1c 3244 14 14 1462 56% 3209 51%

Very soon i plan to start testing Strelka 5.5:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/scct-rating/

And i hope the new version of Strelka 5.5 will be ranked at one of the Top places

Btw,Auto232 testing is clear proof that your classification theory is wrong

Good luck,
Sedat

Auto232 testing is not immune to the problem of differing priorities. Two identical machines connected via auto232 still gives an advantage to the program with the higher priority due to competition with other programs (OS and such) on the same machine.

All SCCT's chess engines are running at Priority=below normal

And here is the configuration,which i use for SCCT Tournaments:


[ENGINE]
Name=Houdini 2.0c Pro x64 6c
Author=Robert Houdart
Filename=C:\chess\enginess\Houdini20\Houdini2.exe
Priority=below normal
[OPTIONS]
GaviotaTbPath=H:\chess\Gaviota
GaviotaTbCache=64

Btw,i check with the Task Manager about its true or not and noticed that Houdini runs at priority=below normal


So...i will be very glad if anybody will inform me about in which priority setting i should test the engines,where Houdini will start to be beaten ???


Thanks in forwards,
Sedat

[hgm]

1. I don't say it's the case with Houdini but it's very easy to hide something to the task manager ... For example : the viruses ... They don't appear in task manager but are still running.

That is because virusses by nature hide in existing programs, and are not CPU intensive tasks. If they would use CPU time, you would see it in the task manager. If only because they eat the time away from the process you are monitoring, so that it shows less than 100%.

2. A know example of Process Thief is Ivanhoe 58 ...

Try it with ponder off and you'll see it freeze the other engine and it is always running !

Maybe Houdini can do like Ivanhoe 58 but more slightly (without completely freezing the other engine but just slow down a little) and maybe Houdini can also have an hidden process running ...

Sure. It is possible for an engine to disobey the ponder-off command, use more CPUs than you tell it to use, use more hash memory than you tell it to use... I know some Xiangqi engines that steal CPU. But you always find out pretty easily with the task manager that something fishy is going on.

You said 8ply for Houdini is not 8ply for Critter. Can you explain ?
Because for me it seems the same ...

If I test 7 ply / 8 ply (the 8 win nearly everything), and if I test 8 ply / 7 ply (the 8 win nearly everything) so the only comparable is with the same ply ...

Have you ever tested TSCP against Stockfish or Houdini at 8 ply? That would be a very educative experience! The difference between top engines, which all have very similar searches, is of course only modest, but when you try something really different...

[Strelkaman]

The secret of Houdini chess engine is that it uses all the physical memory of your computer.It's not a chess engine as the other ones but a speedhack engine.Simply when you open task manager you see houdini is running.But you don't see that houdini is running in high priority.This is the internal Houdini hack.Make an experiment.Try to arrange an engine match between Critter 1.4a and Houdini 2.0C on Arena interface for example.Before starting the match,go to your task manager and switch Critter to high Priority.Then start the match.Critter is superior in speed too and manages to beat Houdini with a narrow margin

Just my 2 cents over this issue

Sorry,but i have different view than yours

The bellow standings are based/played between each other on different separate PCs

And as we see, Houdini is still the world's number one engine

http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/july-december-2011/
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/scct-auto232/
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/ratings/scct-auto232/



Greetings,
Sedat

1)Where is Strelka? 2)This classification has nothing to do with my theory:)

Actually i already tested Strelka 5.1:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/ratings/scct-auto232/
28 Strelka 5.1 x64 1c 3244 14 14 1462 56% 3209 51%

Very soon i plan to start testing Strelka 5.5:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/scct-rating/

And i hope the new version of Strelka 5.5 will be ranked at one of the Top places

Btw,Auto232 testing is clear proof that your classification theory is wrong

Good luck,
Sedat

Auto232 testing is not immune to the problem of differing priorities. Two identical machines connected via auto232 still gives an advantage to the program with the higher priority due to competition with other programs (OS and such) on the same machine.

All SCCT's chess engines are running at Priority=below normal

And here is the configuration,which i use for SCCT Tournaments:


[ENGINE]
Name=Houdini 2.0c Pro x64 6c
Author=Robert Houdart
Filename=C:\chess\enginess\Houdini20\Houdini2.exe
Priority=below normal
[OPTIONS]
GaviotaTbPath=H:\chess\Gaviota
GaviotaTbCache=64

Btw,i check with the Task Manager about its true or not and noticed that Houdini runs at priority=below normal


So...i will be very glad if anybody will inform me about in which priority setting i should test the engines,where Houdini will start to be beaten ???


Thanks in forwards,
Sedat

Why you choose Priority=below normal and not choose Priority=normal?Whats the difference to you?You don't agree with what iam saying,so why you set priority to below normal?Iam asking because with ponder OFF engine 1 stops engine 2 runs and vice versa.So why you choose something like that?

If you want to test my theory,in a 2 engines match,you start with Houdini set to normal and the other engine set to below normal

[elpapa]

So you set Ivanhoe "above normal" and Houdini stands to Normal.You saw a speed difference for 7.000 knps and you say that this is normal?

Yes, this is what I did in the last test to show what happens when one engine is set to higher priority then the other.

First of all there are 2 processes running at the same time.How this is happening?I mean your ponder is OFF.

I used Arena, loaded both engines and let them analyze the same position at the same time.

Secondly I mean Houdini if it hasn't another processor thief app running in the background why your setting to "above normal" affect the houdini engine?

Rememer both engines are set to use six cores, so they are competing for CPU time and with one engine set to above normal priority it gets more time than the other, which is expected.

To think about it logically,if your set is above normal with any other engine except Houdini you would have the same speed for both engines

I don't understand exactly what you mean. To me it's logical that the engines have the same speed (or rather the same amount of CPU time) if they are set to the same priority, which they had when I tried that.

[hgm]

All SCCT's chess engines are running at Priority=below normal

Indeed, this is good practice, when you play with ponder on, and want to divide up all available CPUs between the engines (so that nothing remains for the GUI). It prevents that the system allows the engine to continue pondering after it has sent its move, rather than immediately starting the GUI to switch the clock and pass the move on to the opponent. (Windows has the tendency to favor a process that was already running over one that just woke up, if they have the same priority and there are no free CPUs.)

When you play with ponder off, so that only 1 process wants to run at the time, it doesn't matter so much. When you would set aside one CPU for running the GUI, it would not matter so much either.

[ilari]

So you set Ivanhoe "above normal" and Houdini stands to Normal.You saw a speed difference for 7.000 knps and you say that this is normal?First of all there are 2 processes running at the same time.How this is happening?I mean your ponder is OFF.

He didn't say the engines were playing against each other, or that there was even a GUI involved. He just analyzed the starting position with both engines concurrently (if I understood correctly).

Secondly I mean Houdini if it hasn't another processor thief app running in the background why your setting to "above normal" affect the houdini engine?To think about it logically,if your set is above normal with any other engine except Houdini you would have the same speed for both engines

There are two engines running at the same time. One has a "Normal" priority, the other "Above Normal". The engine with the "Above normal" priority hogs most of the CPU time and calculates way more nodes per second. How is this weird?

[notyetagm]

LOL. You've missed April Fools by 6 weeks.

ROFLMAO

[Strelkaman]

So you set Ivanhoe "above normal" and Houdini stands to Normal.You saw a speed difference for 7.000 knps and you say that this is normal?

Yes, this is what I did in the last test to show what happens when one engine is set to higher priority then the other.

First of all there are 2 processes running at the same time.How this is happening?I mean your ponder is OFF.

I used Arena, loaded both engines and let them analyze the same position at the same time.

Secondly I mean Houdini if it hasn't another processor thief app running in the background why your setting to "above normal" affect the houdini engine?

Rememer both engines are set to use six cores, so they are competing for CPU time and with one engine set to above normal priority it gets more time than the other, which is expected.

To think about it logically,if your set is above normal with any other engine except Houdini you would have the same speed for both engines

I don't understand exactly what you mean. To me it's logical that the engines have the same speed (or rather the same amount of CPU time) if they are set to the same priority, which they had when I tried that.

They are competing for CPU time and with a simple setting "above normal"to Ivanhoe engine you have a 7000 kbnodes difference?Do you understand that something is going wrong here?If you don't iam sorry,i can't help you my friend

[hgm]

We understand there is nothing going wrong there. The process with the highest priority gets most CPU when they are competing. That is what 'highest priority' means. Absolutely nothing wrong with that...

Now tell us what you understand...

[Strelkaman]

We understand there is nothing going wrong there. The process with the highest priority gets most CPU when they are competing. That is what 'highest priority' means. Absolutely nothing wrong with that...

Now tell us what you understand...

Yes there is nothing wrong here only that Ilari Pihlajisto has a 7000kb/nodes difference with the set to below normal and Sedat make engine tests with Ponder OFF and set to below normal for Houdini to declare Houdini winner in all the tests.Except all these there is nothing wrong at all