I wish you good luck with this opening, because it seems double-edged from my patzer POV.
I (1200-1300) have played this everytime i can with white, my 2200+ trainer too.
I never came in bad positions as white, quite opposite. I once won against one of the best in my group in scholastic chess after 5.f4 Ng4 6.f5 Nf2 7. Qh5 O-O?? And i won in few moves.
In the Fritz 13 book, 5...Ng4 is marked "?" (blue move) and it would most often choose 5...Nc6. After 5...Ng4 6.f5 it has 6...h5 too, from 3 games, but the green tournament move is 6...Nf2.
From the start position I think just developing with Nf3 is best. These kind of positions where black seems ahead in tempi without obviously bad developing moves from white usually means that very quickly black will find himself over extended. If Nf3 and then black Knight goes to g4 then rf1! Ok black managed to prevent white castling kingside but things could now backfire if he himself castles kingside white advanced pawns could easily blast him. This opening would be good for black if white is not aware of possible tactical dangers.
M ANSARI wrote:From the start position I think just developing with Nf3 is best. These kind of positions where black seems ahead in tempi without obviously bad developing moves from white usually means that very quickly black will find himself over extended. If Nf3 and then black Knight goes to g4 then rf1! Ok black managed to prevent white castling kingside but things could now backfire if he himself castles kingside white advanced pawns could easily blast him. This opening would be good for black if white is not aware of possible tactical dangers.
Do you mean 5. Nf3 instead of 5. f4? In this case I would simply play 6. O-O in reply to 5...Ng4 (in most cases Ng4 is pointless if the opponent can castle).
A fellow chess coach I know plays the Vienna and always teaches the Vienna to the girls he coaches. He plays the line with 5. Be3 in combination with Ng1-e2 in order to advance the f-pawn later on.
In contrast, 5. Nf3 is quite toothless as it is likely to transpose to the Gioco Pianissimo which doesn't give Black a serious headache.
It is a sound suggestion though, and would be well suited for the OP - i.e. if you've got 1200-1300 ELO you should be more concerned with learning to play the middle game and end game and not focus on crushes right out of the opening by some special method (in the f4-f5 case that special method would be the pawn roller on the kingside). Becoming versatile is the key to improvement.
M ANSARI wrote:From the start position I think just developing with Nf3 is best. These kind of positions where black seems ahead in tempi without obviously bad developing moves from white usually means that very quickly black will find himself over extended. If Nf3 and then black Knight goes to g4 then rf1! Ok black managed to prevent white castling kingside but things could now backfire if he himself castles kingside white advanced pawns could easily blast him. This opening would be good for black if white is not aware of possible tactical dangers.
The first diagram is wrong. White has just played f4 and so it's black's move. What's best then for black here:
[D]rnbqk2r/ppp2ppp/3p1n2/2b1p3/2B1PP2/2NP4/PPP3PP/R1BQK1NR b KQkq f3 0 5
ethanara wrote:
[d]rnbqk2r/ppp2ppp/3p1n2/2b1p3/2B1PP2/2NP4/PPP3PP/R1BQK1NR w KQkq
In this position my engine DoubleCheck 2.5.4 prefers Nf3 and thinks the position is very equal. Critter 1.4 agrees, even after a long time of analysis. It may seem a little counter intuitive to allow ..Ng4, but after Nf3 and Ng4 the best response according to both engines is simply Qe2
Although I prefer Rf1 from Ansari instead which is a more human move, and easier to play/understand.
ethanara wrote:
[d]rnbqk2r/ppp2ppp/3p1n2/2b1p3/2B1PP2/2NP4/PPP3PP/R1BQK1NR w KQkq
In this position my engine DoubleCheck 2.5.4 prefers Nf3 and thinks the position is very equal. Critter 1.4 agrees, even after a long time of analysis. It may seem a little counter intuitive to allow ..Ng4, but after Nf3 and Ng4 the best response according to both engines is simply Qe2
Although I prefer Rf1 from Ansari instead which is a more human move, and easier to play/understand.
OK, but the diagram is incorrect. It should be black to move:
[D]rnbqk2r/ppp2ppp/3p1n2/2b1p3/2B1PP2/2NP4/PPP3PP/R1BQK1NR b KQkq f3 0 5
zullil wrote:
The first diagram is wrong. White has just played f4 and so it's black's move. What's best then for black here:
[D]rnbqk2r/ppp2ppp/3p1n2/2b1p3/2B1PP2/2NP4/PPP3PP/R1BQK1NR b KQkq f3 0 5
You're right Louis!
Ethan,
Are you sure this position is theory ? It seems already incorrect, and after 5 moves black has a significant edge here with Ng4... White must have played something wrong before to get here. Don't trust book lines blindly, there are so many bad books out there that have not been submitted to thorough computer analysis...
