ranking lists - Why windows

[Don]

Once I tried Linux for about half a year. I found it uncomfortable and had many problems. I hated to have to compile everything. That despite being quite familiar with working from the command line. I can't give specifics but I simply did not have the patience. Linux is for developers, not users.

Try the latest Ubuntu Linux from http://www.ubuntu.com/download for free. It can be run from a CD-ROM or a USB thumb drive without having to do an installation.

Running Ubuntu is very much like running a version of Mac OS/X that's a few years old. The Ubuntu developers are stealing as much as possible from Apple without risking lawsuits; for nearly every Mac OS/X feature, there is or soon will be a corresponding Ubuntu feature. Both have an application store, both have a music/video store, both have a selection of media players, both have device synchronization, both have some kind of cloud facility, both have about the same desktop feature set, both have a software update system, and both use a flavor of Unix as the underlying operating system. On both, many users never need to use a command line.

OS/X benefits: OS/X is a bit more polished and there are no driver problems as long as Apple hardware is used.

Ubuntu benefits: it's free and it runs on all sorts of hardware old and new.

Don't forget that Mac OS is really just another version of Unix just as Linux is. A linux user can log onto a Mac machine and feel pretty comfortable right away. Of course things are layed out differently and the window manager is completely different, but these are superficial things.

[jdart]

The problem is, when time is of the essence, side by side, an average person when given two pc's, one for Linux, one for Windows's, and a CD for each, will have the windows pc running as required much faster then the Linux.

That's not my experience - IMO it is no slower to set up a Linux box. You don't even have to go into the command line, anymore. But I am very experienced and know what to do. Some of the steps like choosing partitions might be confusing to a newbie. Getting current drivers can also be a bit more challenging than in Windows. But the installer itself runs fast and isn't that complex (I use Ubuntu, mostly, but have used CentOS and others too).

--Jon

[Don]

Linux gave me back the joy of dealing with a computer and programming.

Miguel

Varietas delectat.

Now that I have just created a USB stick with Ubuntu on it I am wondering why I should want to try it out. How am I going to get my Fritz 13 running? Will I have to run a lot of things through Wine? Will Arena run flawlessly and stable? How will I test engines that do not have a Linux 'executable'?

Moreover, I am afraid of some side effects if I use Windows and Linux as alternatives. E.g. when my e-mail arrives into the mailbox I use under Windows it will not be accessible from under Linux. I remember having this problem at the time I used Ubuntu.
I also remember that I had difficulties removing Linux from my computer. It sticks.

Also, I have about 40 GB of data on the HDD I plan to use running Linux. Will that be erased during the installation process? If not, will that data be accessible and editable?

These are my worries.

No matter what OS you use there is a painful learning curve. That keeps people in the MS world more than anything else. I have seen people make the effort, get frustrated after a few days and just go back to paying for their OS and each upgrade.

I know a lot of people who switched and never looked back. I have to deal with both so I have a dual boot and although I'm rarely in Windows, it's there when I need it.

You can run a great deal of MS software using wine by the way and it runs at native speed. wiine64 runs native 64 bit windows executable s very nicely, and I'm not talking about just console applications. So you have options. Also, you don't really need microsoft office, there are alternatives that make it possible to read and write doc files, ms spreadsheets and just about everything else.

[Don]

The Linux I used once was Ubuntu. However, at your suggestion I may try the latest version and see if I like it.

Unfortunately it appears people are now running away from Ubuntu in droves. It seems their "Unity" GUI is a complete disaster....

I have mixed feelings about that myself. I have not upgraded yet to 11.10 but I'm going to try Unity for a month and then make a decision. I have 11.04 and I am just using the gnome desktop, but I may chuck everything and go with one of the more basic window managers.

I lament the fact that Linux is trying to be more like windows - if I really wanted that then I would run windows.

I am concerned about the workspace switcher - I make heavy use of that in Linux and it's my understanding that there is nothing like that in Unity. I will give it a fair chance and see if I can adapt - but the last thing I really want to do as a developer is learn how to operate my computer every 6 months. I think Ubuntu is make a very high risk gamble here - we will see how it works out.

I don't think I would work on my desktiop the same way I would work on my Android tablet and that seems to be the assumption of the Unity system.

[Don]

Ubuntu benefits: it's free and it runs on all sorts of hardware old and new.

But for people who are not nerds, there is a big problem: always something doesn't work. It might be digital camera, web camera, wireless network card, Java, satellite navigator or something else. Sometimes you can fix these issues with Google + typing magics in terminal window, sometimes not.

When buying a device from the shop and plugging it in the computer, people just expect it to work. I don't blame Ubuntu developers for this, but it is very difficult to recommend the OS for ordinary people.

But as a development environment and for server-use, I think Linux is very close to ideal

Absolutely. It's understandable that there is always something that doesn't work however because there is MS pressure against things that work in Linux.

I have an old fashioned concept of how a computer is to be used. I think of it as a powerful computing machine, not an email checker, or a place to view videos or a way to find hook up with people for sex. It's become a replacement for actual face to face social interaction and a toy for amusement and recreation. So for me I am not really interested in the developments Linux is making towards dumbing it down to be more and more like Windows. I would honestly love to see more distinctions between computers and recreational devices. I guess they tried that with stuff like the web appliances and it didn't work.

[Don]

The problem is, when time is of the essence, side by side, an average person when given two pc's, one for Linux, one for Windows's, and a CD for each, will have the windows pc running as required much faster then the Linux.

That's not my experience - IMO it is no slower to set up a Linux box. You don't even have to go into the command line, anymore. But I am very experienced and know what to do. Some of the steps like choosing partitions might be confusing to a newbie. Getting current drivers can also be a bit more challenging than in Windows. But the installer itself runs fast and isn't that complex (I use Ubuntu, mostly, but have used CentOS and others too).

--Jon

Modern Linux distributions install very rapidly with almost no pain. It used to be a pretty big issue but it isn't any longer. There are still some glitches in some cases, but that is true of any OS that is not factory installed including windows. My wife spend an entire day trying to get windows re-installed and working correctly when she sold her laptop to someone - a truly frustrating experience for her.

Welcome to computers.

[michiguel]

The Linux I used once was Ubuntu. However, at your suggestion I may try the latest version and see if I like it.

Unfortunately it appears people are now running away from Ubuntu in droves. It seems their "Unity" GUI is a complete disaster....

You have the option to keep using gnome at log in. That is what I do.

Miguel

[Jesse Gersenson]

Xubuntu, is ubuntu with the XFCE windows manager. For existing Ubuntu users wanting to make the switch, just install the xubuntu-desktop package from your existing Ubuntu install and you'll have both window managers available.

It's what I have been using for the past 4 years.

The interface hardly changes from version to version. Look at their release announcements and you find trivial changes. Here's an example from the 11.10 release announcement,"[we went from] mousepad to leafpad as the default text editor."

It's a logical alternative if one's been using Ubuntu.

[Jesse Gersenson]

If using xfce, and if you don't want the look to change from version to version - there are two visual settings to know about - both under Settings
Settings > appearance
Settings > window manager > theme

keep these the same and xfce stays looking and behaving the same, regardless of what system it's running atop.

[zamar]

Absolutely. It's understandable that there is always something that doesn't work however because there is MS pressure against things that work in Linux.

I think that the problem is simply that most manufacturers don't want to bother supporting OS which is only used by very small minority. If Linux (by a miracle) becomes popular, they start to support it.

Plus many LInux-distributions refuse to redistribute any closed source drivers which further discourages commercial development for Linux.

I have an old fashioned concept of how a computer is to be used. I think of it as a powerful computing machine, not an email checker, or a place to view videos or a way to find hook up with people for sex.

Yes, I have a similar view, that's why I've happily used Linux for the last ten years. But when we talk about ordinary people and the way they use the computer, I really wouldn't recommend LInux for them.