Mr. Dailey did you take advantage of Ippolit and Stockfish?

[georgerifkin]

hello mr dailey,
you have written several times in this forum that you took ideas from ippolit and stockfish, but you have also signed several letters against vasik and as far as I know ippolit is based on rybka.
thus may we conclude that you are a bit incoherent? you signed letters against vasik but you had no problems with using his ideas to improve komodo and you are going to sell komodo ad the end of the year.

looking for informations about you with google I read that you disappeared from computer chess for several years and then reappeared out of the blue at the end of 2009, with your program doch rated about 2880 points. now komodo is one of the strongest engine with a rating of about 3150 points, about the same rating of ippolit/robblit or whatever other name they have.
so you gained more than 135 elo points/year which is really impressive.

so I would like to make you two questions:

1)did you take advantage of ippolit and stockfish?

please just answer yes or no.

2)while reaching those 2880 points with doch, did you take advantage of any other program? for example fruit? i remember there was also an other strong program open source in 2008 but i can't remember its name.

again, please just answer yes or no


if yes, why are you acting as a virgin and why shouldn't I buy houdini that, as it seems, took advantage in a more proficient way of ippolit and stockfish?


thank you.

[bhlangonijr]

hello mr dailey,
you have written several times in this forum that you took ideas from ippolit and stockfish, but you have also signed several letters against vasik and as far as I know ippolit is based on rybka.
thus may we conclude that you are a bit incoherent? you signed letters against vasik but you had no problems with using his ideas to improve komodo and you are going to sell komodo ad the end of the year.

looking for informations about you with google I read that you disappeared from computer chess for several years and then reappeared out of the blue at the end of 2009, with your program doch rated about 2880 points. now komodo is one of the strongest engine with a rating of about 3150 points, about the same rating of ippolit/robblit or whatever other name they have.
so you gained more than 135 elo points/year which is really impressive.

so I would like to make you two questions:

1)did you take advantage of ippolit and stockfish?

please just answer yes or no.

2)while reaching those 2880 points with doch, did you take advantage of any other program? for example fruit? i remember there was also an other strong program open source in 2008 but i can't remember its name.

again, please just answer yes or no


if yes, why are you acting as a virgin and why shouldn't I buy houdini that, as it seems, took advantage in a more proficient way of ippolit and stockfish?


thank you.

Do you know the difference between (verbatim) copying of code and using ideas??

please just answer yes or no

Regards,

[kgburcham]

hello mr dailey,
you have written several times in this forum that you took ideas from ippolit and stockfish, but you have also signed several letters against vasik and as far as I know ippolit is based on rybka.
thus may we conclude that you are a bit incoherent? you signed letters against vasik but you had no problems with using his ideas to improve komodo and you are going to sell komodo ad the end of the year.

looking for informations about you with google I read that you disappeared from computer chess for several years and then reappeared out of the blue at the end of 2009, with your program doch rated about 2880 points. now komodo is one of the strongest engine with a rating of about 3150 points, about the same rating of ippolit/robblit or whatever other name they have.
so you gained more than 135 elo points/year which is really impressive.

so I would like to make you two questions:

1)did you take advantage of ippolit and stockfish?

please just answer yes or no.

2)while reaching those 2880 points with doch, did you take advantage of any other program? for example fruit? i remember there was also an other strong program open source in 2008 but i can't remember its name.

again, please just answer yes or no


if yes, why are you acting as a virgin and why shouldn't I buy houdini that, as it seems, took advantage in a more proficient way of ippolit and stockfish?
thank you.

Do you know the difference between (verbatim) copying of code and using ideas??
please just answer yes or no
Regards,

did you know that more than one of the worlds top computer chess programmers are having trouble agreeing on the definition of copying code and using ideas?
please just answer yes or no or maybe or I dont care or give me a drink
regards,

[Terry McCracken]

hello mr dailey,
you have written several times in this forum that you took ideas from ippolit and stockfish, but you have also signed several letters against vasik and as far as I know ippolit is based on rybka.
thus may we conclude that you are a bit incoherent? you signed letters against vasik but you had no problems with using his ideas to improve komodo and you are going to sell komodo ad the end of the year.

looking for informations about you with google I read that you disappeared from computer chess for several years and then reappeared out of the blue at the end of 2009, with your program doch rated about 2880 points. now komodo is one of the strongest engine with a rating of about 3150 points, about the same rating of ippolit/robblit or whatever other name they have.
so you gained more than 135 elo points/year which is really impressive.

so I would like to make you two questions:

1)did you take advantage of ippolit and stockfish?

please just answer yes or no.

2)while reaching those 2880 points with doch, did you take advantage of any other program? for example fruit? i remember there was also an other strong program open source in 2008 but i can't remember its name.

again, please just answer yes or no


if yes, why are you acting as a virgin and why shouldn't I buy houdini that, as it seems, took advantage in a more proficient way of ippolit and stockfish?
thank you.

Do you know the difference between (verbatim) copying of code and using ideas??
please just answer yes or no
Regards,

did you know that more than one of the worlds top computer chess programmers are having trouble agreeing on the definition of copying code and using ideas?
please just answer yes or no or maybe or I dont care or give me a drink
regards,

No, there isn't! It's Clear only a minority want to Muddy the waters!

[gerold]

hello mr dailey,
you have written several times in this forum that you took ideas from ippolit and stockfish, but you have also signed several letters against vasik and as far as I know ippolit is based on rybka.
thus may we conclude that you are a bit incoherent? you signed letters against vasik but you had no problems with using his ideas to improve komodo and you are going to sell komodo ad the end of the year.

looking for informations about you with google I read that you disappeared from computer chess for several years and then reappeared out of the blue at the end of 2009, with your program doch rated about 2880 points. now komodo is one of the strongest engine with a rating of about 3150 points, about the same rating of ippolit/robblit or whatever other name they have.
so you gained more than 135 elo points/year which is really impressive.

so I would like to make you two questions:

1)did you take advantage of ippolit and stockfish?

please just answer yes or no.

2)while reaching those 2880 points with doch, did you take advantage of any other program? for example fruit? i remember there was also an other strong program open source in 2008 but i can't remember its name.

again, please just answer yes or no


if yes, why are you acting as a virgin and why shouldn't I buy houdini that, as it seems, took advantage in a more proficient way of ippolit and stockfish?
thank you.

Do you know the difference between (verbatim) copying of code and using ideas??
please just answer yes or no
Regards,

did you know that more than one of the worlds top computer chess programmers are having trouble agreeing on the definition of copying code and using ideas?
please just answer yes or no or maybe or I dont care or give me a drink
regards,

I have a private engine that is as strong as Houdini. The code and idea's were there free for the taking. So why not. . Looks like a lot of folks did the same thing. .

Best,
Gerold.

P.S. There will not be any stronger engine than the program i have until some very smart programmer comes along with a big improvement over the present top 10 clones.

[Peter Skinner]

Hi George,

If I had an engine, I would certainly look at the code of free or open source projects to see how this or that is done and then implement those ideas with my own code.

It would also be counter-intuitive not to.

Programs like Crafty have been around for ages and one can get the code, look at how Robert has done something and try to mimic it. Nothing wrong with taking an idea and writing your own code to match the results.

However copying code directly from one program to your own is wrong. We are seeing just that with the likes of Rybka and Houdini. I don't care if a program is based on Robbolito, as long as the code was re-written from scratch to make it unique to the author.

A caveman invented the wheel, but people for centuries have been trying to make it better. They took a concept and used their own engineering to try and make it perform to their standards. Nothing wrong with that.

So there is a difference in running with an idea to make it better and simply copying an idea line for line to shorten result times.

Robert Houdart didn't spend years making Houdini from scratch. He showed up one day with a 3000+ elo rated program that he started from the source of an already strong 3000+ rated program. He took code line for line and improved on certain areas, but the base was still 100% Robbolito.

Take Chiron for example. It has been around for ages competing in events like the CCT. So not only is the author established, but so is the program itself. I would also go so far to say that it's highly unlikely that the author would spend years creating his own engine, and one day wake up and copy another program just to turn commercial. My mind would be blown if that was the case.

Robert Houdart for the most part was unknown to this community before Houdini's release. So the author isn't established and neither was his program. It played like a known clone or derivative; thus was investigated. Not only was the investigation fruitful finding results but the author himself dodges the question at every turn. Had Robert come out and said that he based Houdini off Robbolito and improved this or that, it would have certainly been more widely accepted. Sure, it would never be allowed in tournaments, but he would have gained far more respect for being honest instead of his statements of taking "ideas" from others. It is quite obvious he took direct verbatim code from one or more programs.

Would it not be suspicious if I turned up tomorrow with a program that was slightly stronger than Houdini? Of course it would. Would people not assume I had copied Houdini and made some sort of advancement?

No one just shows up with the #1 rated program in the World without being established in some form to the Computer Chess Community as a whole. It just doesn't happen.

Peter

[rbarreira]

Would it not be suspicious if I turned up tomorrow with a program that was slightly stronger than Houdini? Of course it would. Would people not assume I had copied Houdini and made some sort of advancement?

Unfortunately yes, it would be considered suspicious by many people and many would assume your engine was a clone.

I say unfortunately because it's very possible that there are non-released engines which will never be released unless their authors manage to make them very strong.

Those engines may have been in development for many years and when they finally get released they'll forever have the mark of being a possible clone unless their authors go to great lengths towards disproving that (and even then some people will still be doubting it).

[Peter Skinner]

Would it not be suspicious if I turned up tomorrow with a program that was slightly stronger than Houdini? Of course it would. Would people not assume I had copied Houdini and made some sort of advancement?

Unfortunately yes, it would be considered suspicious by many people and many would assume your engine was a clone.

I say unfortunately because it's very possible that there are non-released engines which will never be released unless their authors manage to make them very strong.

Those engines may have been in development for many years and when they finally get released they'll forever have the mark of being a possible clone unless their authors go to great lengths towards disproving that (and even then some people will still be doubting it).

I wouldn't blame them for wanting some explanation. The difference would be that I would show the code to prove that it either was a clone or wasn't.

I know it would be a clone, so why not everyone else in on the secret. Maybe I just have high moral standing that I wouldn't want to dupe people into thinking I have done something spectacular.

I'm also very sure that there are very strong programs that have been in development for years and we will either never see them or when we do they will be chastised. This is the result however of a now suspicious community from being duped by Rybka for so many years.

Sad, but true.

Peter

[Terry McCracken]

Would it not be suspicious if I turned up tomorrow with a program that was slightly stronger than Houdini? Of course it would. Would people not assume I had copied Houdini and made some sort of advancement?

Unfortunately yes, it would be considered suspicious by many people and many would assume your engine was a clone.

I say unfortunately because it's very possible that there are non-released engines which will never be released unless their authors manage to make them very strong.

Those engines may have been in development for many years and when they finally get released they'll forever have the mark of being a possible clone unless their authors go to great lengths towards disproving that (and even then some people will still be doubting it).

You're right and this is the situation Vas and later the unknown authors of Robbolito and now Robert Houdart have created.

Computer chess will never be the same after this. To the people who tainted it may the all be exposed and be forced to face the music. An unlikely event but I can hope.

[bhlangonijr]

did you know that more than one of the worlds top computer chess programmers are having trouble agreeing on the definition of copying code and using ideas?
please just answer yes or no or maybe or I dont care or give me a drink
regards,

Who cares? I am not counting who is on either side, I myself took a look at the evidences to draw my own conclusions... If you are the one who is counting, you better be on the majority side. It is statistically safer...

Regards,