About Pred, I'm about to start working on the evaluation function, now, as I'm eager to make it a bit smarter
Release date around Xmas, as last year. You sure you want your birthday present before it smells Xmas in the air? 
Computer chess scene: a heap of ruins
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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JuLieN
- Posts: 2949
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 12:16 pm
- Location: Bordeaux (France)
- Full name: Julien Marcel
Re: Computer chess scene: a heap of ruins
Why, why is there always a price, with Fern? Do you know why, Steve? Why?
About Pred, I'm about to start working on the evaluation function, now, as I'm eager to make it a bit smarter Release date around Xmas, as last year. You sure you want your birthday present before it smells Xmas in the air?
About Pred, I'm about to start working on the evaluation function, now, as I'm eager to make it a bit smarter
Release date around Xmas, as last year. You sure you want your birthday present before it smells Xmas in the air? "The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
[Blog: http://tinyurl.com/predateur ] [Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/fbpredateur ] [MacEngines: http://tinyurl.com/macengines ]
[Blog: http://tinyurl.com/predateur ] [Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/fbpredateur ] [MacEngines: http://tinyurl.com/macengines ]
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fern
- Posts: 8755
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:07 pm
Re: Computer chess scene: a heap of ruins
Absolutement....
BTW, besides the bad bishop issue, there is an old trick used by Kittinger that seems to be good: to push the engine to trade material when he already has some advantage.
You need, also, to deepen the search. In my comp, in middle game, rarely goes beyond 12-13 ply. I suppose some extra pruning is necessary.
a bientot
Ferdinand
BTW, besides the bad bishop issue, there is an old trick used by Kittinger that seems to be good: to push the engine to trade material when he already has some advantage.
You need, also, to deepen the search. In my comp, in middle game, rarely goes beyond 12-13 ply. I suppose some extra pruning is necessary.
a bientot
Ferdinand
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Steve B
- Posts: 3697
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:26 pm
Re: Computer chess scene: a heap of ruins
Fern only ever has 3 thing's in his headJuLieN wrote:Why, why is there always a price, with Fern? Do you know why, Steve? Why?
money money money
failing that...
Chess Engines
as for me...i will be happy if you agree to run as moderator here one day
Im Easy Regards
Steve
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JuLieN
- Posts: 2949
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 12:16 pm
- Location: Bordeaux (France)
- Full name: Julien Marcel
Re: Computer chess scene: a heap of ruins
Thanks Steve, but that might be risky: my kind always become either saint or dictator. When forced to chose maybe the result would be uglySteve B wrote:Fern only ever has 3 thing's in his headJuLieN wrote:Why, why is there always a price, with Fern? Do you know why, Steve? Why?
About Pred, I'm about to start working on the evaluation function, now, as I'm eager to make it a bit smarter
money money money
failing that...
Chess Engines
as for me...i will be happy if you agree to run as moderator here one day
Im Easy Regards
Steve
"The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
[Blog: http://tinyurl.com/predateur ] [Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/fbpredateur ] [MacEngines: http://tinyurl.com/macengines ]
[Blog: http://tinyurl.com/predateur ] [Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/fbpredateur ] [MacEngines: http://tinyurl.com/macengines ]
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Dr.Wael Deeb
- Posts: 9773
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:44 pm
- Location: Amman,Jordan
Re: Computer chess scene: a heap of ruins
Steve,buddy,you missed the hot chicks living in Fern's mind I guessSteve B wrote:Fern only ever has 3 thing's in his headJuLieN wrote:Why, why is there always a price, with Fern? Do you know why, Steve? Why?
money money money
failing that...
Chess Engines
as for me...i will be happy if you agree to run as moderator here one day
Im Easy Regards
Steve
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
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Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 6808
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: Please thinking about this 12 points!
Lary,
what you would do if ...
1. A friend of you is attacking, shame / disgrave by a group of programmers (Cock de Corter, organizator from the AEGON tourneys)? Without any reason?
2. An official tourney you are most like will be used for a problem others have. An tourney which is for myself sacred after all the work the tournament directors do around 30 years.
--------------- INVIOLABLE -----------------
3. Different programmers signature an open letter and sent here programs to a comercial company (ChessBase). This company selling Rybka too. Where is the logic? But perhaps the company will get the next open letters by the same group of programmers?
4. Different programmers started 5 years after again and again an attack to Vas. Now after a clear decision by ICGA. Leiden isn't ICGA and the tournament director from Leiden don't have to solve the problems other have with Vas. The programmers have to solved the problems they do with open sources and not other persons.
5. Different programmers started with this open letter again a discusion to this topic which ist totaly counterproductive for the sitution we have in computerchess.
6. The question: What is a clone? isn't clear. For myself each engine which used Alpha/Beta is a clone! Means that we can't start the chain of causation on a position we like at the moment.
7. I think we should be cultivates. To start a war against one person only with his program = Burning of witches!
8. This group of programmers with signature the open letter should go with a good example in front of all others. I can't see that! They go in front of all others with 12 blunders "All in one" in front of all others.
9. Most sources of programs from these group of programmers are never checked in the past. Why this group of programmers will judge about an other programmer if the own works be never checked?
10. If the sources of Rybka are recompiled and now clear to study with all the IPP sources, many others used this ideas of the main person Vas. Why the programmers of the open letters try out so many things against Vas for ideas Vas used in the past from Fruit. Fruit is 300 ELO weaker as Rybka. No one are speaking from the good ideas Vas had, but each one have interest on "Burning of witches".
--- on this position --- to used sources by Fruit isn't right. Do you know how many others used ideas and sources by Fruit from this group of open letters programmers?
11. What do you think is more important, the development of a TOP engines or to help all the others which have interest on chess programming? We have more as 600 available engines. Which such an open letter the future of computer chess is in danger because the younger group of programmers will be lose his models / paragons.
12. The group of open letters programmers have to accept the development computer goes in these days. It make no sense to give own sources free and to underwrite / signature this open letter. All secrets of chess programming are good known. Read the Stockfish interview, I have the same opinion after all I know from many others which try to develops a chess engine.
Lary, I have a lot of respect to much of the programmers which signature this second open letter. But the reaction of this group of programmers which this open letter is not to accept.
Most of this programmers must be have other reason for the signature or they have the "common black out".
Again, what should I do?
Do you mean really that I can support all this as programmers. I try so many years to bring computer chess in a better position with all the things I do in the past. I have no interest on counterproduction things others do.
Sorry, for myself to 100% not to accept!
And again for yourself.
I have many many respect to you and to Don but from my point of view I am very disappointed at all. Very very disappointed. That isn't the correct way I like.
I am sure, if you are thinking about this complete list of 12 points you can't have an other opinion as to say: Yes Frank, this idea was very bad.
Best
Frank
what you would do if ...
1. A friend of you is attacking, shame / disgrave by a group of programmers (Cock de Corter, organizator from the AEGON tourneys)? Without any reason?
2. An official tourney you are most like will be used for a problem others have. An tourney which is for myself sacred after all the work the tournament directors do around 30 years.
--------------- INVIOLABLE -----------------
3. Different programmers signature an open letter and sent here programs to a comercial company (ChessBase). This company selling Rybka too. Where is the logic? But perhaps the company will get the next open letters by the same group of programmers?
4. Different programmers started 5 years after again and again an attack to Vas. Now after a clear decision by ICGA. Leiden isn't ICGA and the tournament director from Leiden don't have to solve the problems other have with Vas. The programmers have to solved the problems they do with open sources and not other persons.
5. Different programmers started with this open letter again a discusion to this topic which ist totaly counterproductive for the sitution we have in computerchess.
6. The question: What is a clone? isn't clear. For myself each engine which used Alpha/Beta is a clone! Means that we can't start the chain of causation on a position we like at the moment.
7. I think we should be cultivates. To start a war against one person only with his program = Burning of witches!
8. This group of programmers with signature the open letter should go with a good example in front of all others. I can't see that! They go in front of all others with 12 blunders "All in one" in front of all others.
9. Most sources of programs from these group of programmers are never checked in the past. Why this group of programmers will judge about an other programmer if the own works be never checked?
10. If the sources of Rybka are recompiled and now clear to study with all the IPP sources, many others used this ideas of the main person Vas. Why the programmers of the open letters try out so many things against Vas for ideas Vas used in the past from Fruit. Fruit is 300 ELO weaker as Rybka. No one are speaking from the good ideas Vas had, but each one have interest on "Burning of witches".
--- on this position --- to used sources by Fruit isn't right. Do you know how many others used ideas and sources by Fruit from this group of open letters programmers?
11. What do you think is more important, the development of a TOP engines or to help all the others which have interest on chess programming? We have more as 600 available engines. Which such an open letter the future of computer chess is in danger because the younger group of programmers will be lose his models / paragons.
12. The group of open letters programmers have to accept the development computer goes in these days. It make no sense to give own sources free and to underwrite / signature this open letter. All secrets of chess programming are good known. Read the Stockfish interview, I have the same opinion after all I know from many others which try to develops a chess engine.
Lary, I have a lot of respect to much of the programmers which signature this second open letter. But the reaction of this group of programmers which this open letter is not to accept.
Most of this programmers must be have other reason for the signature or they have the "common black out".
Again, what should I do?
Do you mean really that I can support all this as programmers. I try so many years to bring computer chess in a better position with all the things I do in the past. I have no interest on counterproduction things others do.
Sorry, for myself to 100% not to accept!
And again for yourself.
I have many many respect to you and to Don but from my point of view I am very disappointed at all. Very very disappointed. That isn't the correct way I like.
I am sure, if you are thinking about this complete list of 12 points you can't have an other opinion as to say: Yes Frank, this idea was very bad.
Best
Frank
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Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 6808
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: One person only can signature this open letter ...
Larry,
one person can signature this open letter but without any attack vs. CSVN. And the name is Fabian!
If parts of Crafty used in Rybka and this one is to 100% clear a second person can signature this open letter but without any attack vs. CSVN and the name is Bob!
And all others must in my opinion have complete other reasons for signature this open letter.
Sorry, but I can't produced an other opinion about it.
Please give me 12 points to create an other opinion and you can be sure SWCR will be running with the same power in the future. I hope you can do that! Please do it for me and all the others which are disappointed too and believe me ... a lot of people are very disappointed. Try it!
Best
Frank
one person can signature this open letter but without any attack vs. CSVN. And the name is Fabian!
If parts of Crafty used in Rybka and this one is to 100% clear a second person can signature this open letter but without any attack vs. CSVN and the name is Bob!
And all others must in my opinion have complete other reasons for signature this open letter.
Sorry, but I can't produced an other opinion about it.
Please give me 12 points to create an other opinion and you can be sure SWCR will be running with the same power in the future. I hope you can do that! Please do it for me and all the others which are disappointed too and believe me ... a lot of people are very disappointed. Try it!
Best
Frank
Last edited by Frank Quisinsky on Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Frank Quisinsky
- Posts: 6808
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: Computer chess scene: a heap of ruins
Hi Tom,
yes, thanks TOM.
I have no problems to give up my SWCR I am working so many hours. If I can see that this one have success I will be very happy. This sacrifices can help to bring the situation in the future on the right way. If not, OK but I try it. I can find fun with so many others computer chess topics and don't need the engines from the group of open letters programmers.
Best
Frank
yes, thanks TOM.
I have no problems to give up my SWCR I am working so many hours. If I can see that this one have success I will be very happy. This sacrifices can help to bring the situation in the future on the right way. If not, OK but I try it. I can find fun with so many others computer chess topics and don't need the engines from the group of open letters programmers.
Best
Frank