How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

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Kempelen
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How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

Post by Kempelen » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:02 pm

Hi,

I am a follower of news about electronic chess boards. I myself have a DGT board and clock and a Novag Citrine. I see the market is stopped. All is vintage and old boards. Apart from DGT there are no new machines and DGT looks like they points to tournaments and not home-style. In fact I see a lot of ground for a company to sell boards smaller than DGT with let plays the computer, like Citrine (althought Citrine is old tech and bad cuality).

What is, in your opinion, the current state in this market and what do you think is the future of electronics chess boards?

Regards,

FS
Fermin Serrano
Author of 'Rodin' engine
http://sites.google.com/site/clonfsp/

Steve B
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Re: How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

Post by Steve B » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:10 pm

Hi Fermin

it seems the future is bleak regarding dedicated chess computers(boards) from the old time established companies
Novag ,Saitek/Mephisto have all baiscally left the business and are no longer selling anything new

there is one company..Phoenix technologies that does remain active selling dedicated chess boards and modules incorporating modern day PC engines and emulations of older programs
recent releases were Shredder 12 and Hiarcs 13.3 for their Revelation board and modules
Rev-Shredder has been rated 2725 by the SSDF
early testing seems to indicate that Rev H13.3 will be rated close to 2800 elo ..
in addition this company will soon be releasing an electronic board in conjunction with DGT which will have engines hardwired into the board and also piece recognition technology

you can read more here:

http://www.phoenixcs.nl/index.php

Best Regards
Steve

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Kempelen
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Re: How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

Post by Kempelen » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:49 pm

Steve B wrote:Hi Fermin

it seems the future is bleak regarding dedicated chess computers(boards) from the old time established companies
Novag ,Saitek/Mephisto have all baiscally left the business and are no longer selling anything new

there is one company..Phoenix technologies that does remain active selling dedicated chess boards and modules incorporating modern day PC engines and emulations of older programs
recent releases were Shredder 12 and Hiarcs 13.3 for their Revelation board and modules
Rev-Shredder has been rated 2725 by the SSDF
early testing seems to indicate that Rev H13.3 will be rated close to 2800 elo ..
in addition this company will soon be releasing an electronic board in conjunction with DGT which will have engines hardwired into the board and also piece recognition technology

you can read more here:

http://www.phoenixcs.nl/index.php

Best Regards
Steve
Hope they offer affordable prices.....
Fermin Serrano
Author of 'Rodin' engine
http://sites.google.com/site/clonfsp/

kurtneumann
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Re: How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

Post by kurtneumann » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:32 pm

I see electronic chessboards never go out of style.

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Re: How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

Post by Steve B » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:35 pm

kurtneumann wrote:I see electronic chessboards never go out of style.
and it should be noted that there is a very active market for USED electronic boards on Ebay
one can find almost any make and model from the past being offered for sale
i myself have bought many used boards this way and rarely have i had a problem with the seller or the computer

the future for NEW boards is bleak ..but the future for USED boards is very bright indeed

Back To The Future Regards
Steve

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Re: How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

Post by hgm » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:04 pm

I think the future is a $8.50 webcam put up next to an ordinary Chess board,plus some image recognition software.

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Re: How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

Post by bob » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:09 pm

Steve B wrote:Hi Fermin

it seems the future is bleak regarding dedicated chess computers(boards) from the old time established companies
Novag ,Saitek/Mephisto have all baiscally left the business and are no longer selling anything new

there is one company..Phoenix technologies that does remain active selling dedicated chess boards and modules incorporating modern day PC engines and emulations of older programs
recent releases were Shredder 12 and Hiarcs 13.3 for their Revelation board and modules
Rev-Shredder has been rated 2725 by the SSDF
early testing seems to indicate that Rev H13.3 will be rated close to 2800 elo ..
in addition this company will soon be releasing an electronic board in conjunction with DGT which will have engines hardwired into the board and also piece recognition technology

you can read more here:

http://www.phoenixcs.nl/index.php

Best Regards
Steve
I am not a DGT fan. The RFID pieces are nice, and solve quite a few problems that I (and others) had as we built our own electronic boards in the 70's and 80's. But it has one glaring omission. You can't see, on the board, the move the computer wants to make. I have one in my office, and while it is a nice test/debugging tool, I hate playing on it because I have to move the physical piece to move, but I have to look at the screen to see what Crafty played in response. Some have seen the electronic chess board I build around 1978, where I had incandescent bulbs hidden under the corner of each square, so that when the computer wanted to move a rook from h1 to h7, it looked like an airport landing system where the lights flash in sequence down the file, making it clear that a move had been made and what you needed to do to complete the process by physically moving the rook.

Don't know why the DGT board omitted that, other than the fact that it was really designed to capture games as they are played between two humans, rather than being an I/O peripheral for a chess engine.

I do agree with HG that the best solution is a web-cam. But it certainly is not the "easiest" solution. One might encode pieces with a non-visible bar code, and use an overhead device to watch the board to detect moves, but then there is the problem of making moves for the computer. The old "phantom" idea was the slickest, the novag robot was OK. Both are Rube Goldbergish in complexity and reliability.

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Re: How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

Post by Steve B » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:20 pm

bob wrote:
Steve B wrote:Hi Fermin

it seems the future is bleak regarding dedicated chess computers(boards) from the old time established companies
Novag ,Saitek/Mephisto have all baiscally left the business and are no longer selling anything new

there is one company..Phoenix technologies that does remain active selling dedicated chess boards and modules incorporating modern day PC engines and emulations of older programs
recent releases were Shredder 12 and Hiarcs 13.3 for their Revelation board and modules
Rev-Shredder has been rated 2725 by the SSDF
early testing seems to indicate that Rev H13.3 will be rated close to 2800 elo ..
in addition this company will soon be releasing an electronic board in conjunction with DGT which will have engines hardwired into the board and also piece recognition technology

you can read more here:

http://www.phoenixcs.nl/index.php

Best Regards
Steve
I am not a DGT fan. The RFID pieces are nice, and solve quite a few problems that I (and others) had as we built our own electronic boards in the 70's and 80's. But it has one glaring omission. You can't see, on the board, the move the computer wants to make. I have one in my office, and while it is a nice test/debugging tool, I hate playing on it because I have to move the physical piece to move, but I have to look at the screen to see what Crafty played in response. Some have seen the electronic chess board I build around 1978, where I had incandescent bulbs hidden under the corner of each square, so that when the computer wanted to move a rook from h1 to h7, it looked like an airport landing system where the lights flash in sequence down the file, making it clear that a move had been made and what you needed to do to complete the process by physically moving the rook.

Don't know why the DGT board omitted that, other than the fact that it was really designed to capture games as they are played between two humans, rather than being an I/O peripheral for a chess engine.

I do agree with HG that the best solution is a web-cam. But it certainly is not the "easiest" solution. One might encode pieces with a non-visible bar code, and use an overhead device to watch the board to detect moves, but then there is the problem of making moves for the computer. The old "phantom" idea was the slickest, the novag robot was OK. Both are Rube Goldbergish in complexity and reliability.
Fidelity wrestled with the problem of not showing any led's on the board because it was distracting to some owners
they came up with a auto-sensory playing board that had no led's
the Moves were shown in a separate Unit(attached by cable to the board) which also contained the Program
it was called the Elite Private Line

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 0922170604

the separate unit had an LCD display screen in the lower front and a small depiction of the chess board on top for move indication:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10261668@N ... 922170604/

One thing nice about this new DGT board is that it will also have piece recognition which to date only a few very expensive dedicated computers had
makes setting up problems a snap
although i dont set up many problems
just something nice to have
its like having a balcony in a NYC apt..
everyone wants one but hardly anyone ever actually uses it

Indoors Regards
Steve

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fern
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Re: How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

Post by fern » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:54 pm

Which future? At least we consider real chess boards the kind of plastic-made toys loaded with programs of the 80's, at best, OR made by Ron Nelson, new ones for sure, but Nelson, legendary as he is, never made news for the strenght of his programs.
So..

No future I can see...


Fern.

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Kempelen
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Re: How do you see the future of electronic chess boards?

Post by Kempelen » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:30 pm

bob wrote: I am not a DGT fan. The RFID pieces are nice, and solve quite a few problems that I (and others) had as we built our own electronic boards in the 70's and 80's. But it has one glaring omission. You can't see, on the board, the move the computer wants to make. I have one in my office, and while it is a nice test/debugging tool, I hate playing on it because I have to move the physical piece to move, but I have to look at the screen to see what Crafty played in response. Some have seen the electronic chess board I build around 1978, where I had incandescent bulbs hidden under the corner of each square, so that when the computer wanted to move a rook from h1 to h7, it looked like an airport landing system where the lights flash in sequence down the file, making it clear that a move had been made and what you needed to do to complete the process by physically moving the rook.

Don't know why the DGT board omitted that, other than the fact that it was really designed to capture games as they are played between two humans, rather than being an I/O peripheral for a chess engine.

I do agree with HG that the best solution is a web-cam. But it certainly is not the "easiest" solution. One might encode pieces with a non-visible bar code, and use an overhead device to watch the board to detect moves, but then there is the problem of making moves for the computer. The old "phantom" idea was the slickest, the novag robot was OK. Both are Rube Goldbergish in complexity and reliability.
With DGT the problem of looking at screen is "partially" solved. I bought the DGT XL clock, which connect to board, and when opponet moves the clock displays the moves like "h1-h7", then you move the opponent piece and the clock return to show the time of the players. I put mine in the opponent side in front of me, so no neck moves also. The clock is not cheap, but it works quite well and you can also use it as the usual chess clock.
Fermin Serrano
Author of 'Rodin' engine
http://sites.google.com/site/clonfsp/

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