Komodo 2.03 release is imminent

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Ron Langeveld
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Re: Komodo 2.03 release, but Carlsen play really different

Post by Ron Langeveld » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:35 pm

Still, in the initial position where early castling is not possible Komodo picks the wrong move. I consider 19...Kf8 a blunder and so 19...Qxd4 is practically the only move. I also doubt that tuning king safety would sufficiently remedy this situation in the prior moves. To me it looks like the trapped rook does not get enough penalty. It's just my opinion and you can read / disregard it any way you see fit. Just trying to help make an excellent engine even better.

lkaufman
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Re: Komodo 2.03 release, but Carlsen play really different

Post by lkaufman » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:48 pm

Ron Langeveld wrote:It is true that black is already in a tough spot. The moves leading up to this position, starting from :

[d]r3kb1r/1p1n1ppb/1qp4p/p4P2/P1BP4/2N5/1P4PP/R1BQ1RK1 b kq - 0 17

were 17...Nf6? (Be7!) 18. Qe2 Be7 19.b3 Kf8?

Komodo's 17...Nf6 surely deserves a question mark, but with 19...Kf8 black opts to play with 1 rook less for quite some time. Given the fact that white already had a lead in development means that 1-0 is just a matter of time. Komodo may count a penalty for this trapped rook but I doubt that the penalty is high enough. Humans see the trapped rook on the spot and start too look for better moves like 19...Qxd4!. Houdini finds this rather soon @ 23 plies I think, without Kf8 in the PV. 20.Kh1 0-0 21.Qxe7 Qxc3 22.Ba3 b5 after which I believe black should be able to hold. In short: my assessment of the position after 19...Kf8 is somewhat different than yours or Komodo's. I am wondering how Larry would assess the position.
Probably Black is in big trouble regardless of whether he plays 19...Kf8 or 19...Qxd4. Komodo rejects the capture because although Black gets castled, he ends up in a wide open position down the bishop pair with his own bishop a virtual prisoner. So Komodo selects 19...Kf8 as the lesser evil. Of course most human players would choose the capture, but it's hard to say which of two very bad lines is the better choice against a 3000 level opponent.

Ron Langeveld
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Re: Komodo 2.03 release, but Carlsen play really different

Post by Ron Langeveld » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:15 pm

I don't know how much time you have spend looking at the line Larry. Maybe you come to agree with me after some more analysis, maybe not. We could start a gauntlet you know ;-)

Anyway, after my initial human instinct I tried to refute 19...Qxd4 but so far all I see is that the line holds. Actually it holds quite comfortably even despite the ugly bishop. White's bishop pair on open lines look pretty insignificant to me after :

19...Qxd4 20.Kh1 0-0 21.Qxe7 Qxc3 22.Ba3 b5 23.Rac1 Qd4 24.axb5 cxb5 25.Bxb5 Rfc8 and due to black's counter play white will probably have to settle on exchanging some artillery to get an endgame where he has an edge but nothing more.

Compared to this position anything after 19...Kf8 20.Kh1 Bb4 21.Bf4 is utterly hopeless for black. White should be able to get a deciding grip with just a few moves and there is nothing black can do about it.

Albert Silver
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Re: Komodo 2.03 release, but Carlsen play really different

Post by Albert Silver » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:59 am

Ron Langeveld wrote:I don't know how much time you have spend looking at the line Larry. Maybe you come to agree with me after some more analysis, maybe not. We could start a gauntlet you know ;-)

Anyway, after my initial human instinct I tried to refute 19...Qxd4 but so far all I see is that the line holds. Actually it holds quite comfortably even despite the ugly bishop. White's bishop pair on open lines look pretty insignificant to me after :

19...Qxd4 20.Kh1 0-0 21.Qxe7 Qxc3 22.Ba3 b5 23.Rac1 Qd4 24.axb5 cxb5 25.Bxb5 Rfc8 and due to black's counter play white will probably have to settle on exchanging some artillery to get an endgame where he has an edge but nothing more.

Compared to this position anything after 19...Kf8 20.Kh1 Bb4 21.Bf4 is utterly hopeless for black. White should be able to get a deciding grip with just a few moves and there is nothing black can do about it.
Black looks completely dead at the end of that line you gave. Black has no counterplay, is stuck with a bishop imprisoned on h7, and the White pieces (especially the bishop pair) are huge.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

Ron Langeveld
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Re: Komodo 2.03 release, but Carlsen play really different

Post by Ron Langeveld » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:52 pm

Sorry, but your wrong. Bishop pair is 0,5 pawn at most. The imprisoned bishop is a bigger problem, but then again in the line after 19...Kf8 black not only had the bishop problem but also plays with 1 rook less on the board. I firmly belief Black is busted after 19...Kf8 but not in the position below.

[d]r1r3k1/4Qppb/5n1p/pB3P2/3q4/BP6/6PP/2R2R1K w - - 0 26

Your move !

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