Install native Linux engines in Arena running under Wine.

[bhlangonijr]

The main advantage of Arena is its usability. Winboard is not an intuitive interface. It is recently only about what HG Mueller wants, not about what users want. You only have to look at the "features" you have implemented. How many people asked for Shantraj? Was it a veritable flood? Go away HG and implement Monopoly in it for us...

Chris

The term usability is subject to other things other than your personal concept about it. For example, I need to control the GUI using some scripts to do some fine tunings in the engine's parameters. I find xboard perfect for that, and you can even disable the graphic interface for better use of the system resources. This is only one advantage of xboard over Arena regarding usability. I am not discrediting Arena, but as a programmer I find it less useful than xboard. I know this opinion may diverge between a lot of programmers, but that's exactly the point I am trying to make here.

Regards,

[hgm]

The only pattern I see is one of you appearing in threads about Arena banging on about Winboard.

Well, look again then. As everyone can see, I only came here when a concensus had already developed that Arena (i.e. a PUBLIC version) was not an option, and people were discussing alternatives. IMO this ceased to be an Arena thread at that point.

Not to worry although as the next Winboard thread we see we will crap all over from a great height. Get ready...you will really enjoy getting dragged through a hedge backwards.

You deserve it. Meanwhile get Monopoly implemented. Its more popular than the rubbish you have.

You are more than welcome. I always like input. You can show nice Arena pictures, to show how Arena already has solved (in an intuitive way! ) things that I just implemented in XBoard, and how that is better, or what it can do that WinBoard cannot do at all. In fact there are already several such threads around, so what is stopping you?

Except that you will not really be able to do it, of course... You can't even manage to present some real information about Arena here, in a so-called Arena thread, let alone screenshots. Just your boring mantra 'Arena good, Winboard bèèèèeèèèd', like the sheep of Animal Farm...

[Christopher Conkie]

The main advantage of Arena is its usability. Winboard is not an intuitive interface. It is recently only about what HG Mueller wants, not about what users want. You only have to look at the "features" you have implemented. How many people asked for Shantraj? Was it a veritable flood? Go away HG and implement Monopoly in it for us...

Chris

The term usability is subject to other things other than your personal concept about it. For example, I need to control the GUI using some scripts to do some fine tunings in the engine's parameters. I find xboard perfect for that, and you can even disable the graphic interface for better use of the system resources. This is only one advantage of xboard over Arena regarding usability. I am not discrediting Arena, but as a programmer I find it less useful than xboard. I know this opinion may diverge between a lot of programmers, but that's exactly the point I am trying to make here.

Regards,

Do you ever get any chess played?



Chris

[Christopher Conkie]

To me that seems the most convenient method for installing engines.

To you, not to the people who use Arena. They ask us for easy ways to do something. Your way is not easy and that is why people even buy products like ChessBase, ShredderGUI, Aquarium.......let alone use Arena which is free.

Chris

[hgm]

I don't get that either. Earlier versions required "-fcp engine-of-your-choice" and "-fd directory-to-run-engine-in" Not exactly rocket science...

Bob, that is because you are way to smart. Arena apparently targets users for which finding a key on the keyboard is already rocket science.

Which in itself is not a crime; the latest WinBoard beta also allows the user to install and start an engine of his choice using only the mouse (by browsing to the exeutable from the browser button Load Engine menu dialog):



Not useful to me, btw, but implemented due to popular demand. Much to the chagrin of some folks here, apparently...

[hgm]

To me that seems the most convenient method for installing engines.

To you, not to the people who use Arena. They ask us for easy ways to do something. Your way is not easy and that is why people even buy products like ChessBase, ShredderGUI, Aquarium.......let alone use Arena which is free.

Well it is a lot easier than what I had to do last time I tried Arena...

But of course you are not going to tell here how Arena does it better, right? That might disturb the illusion you so carefully try to create by hollow rethoric.

[Christopher Conkie]

Just your boring mantra 'Arena good, Winboard bèèèèeèèèd', like the sheep of Animal Farm...

All animals are equal but some are more equal than others? No, Winboard is just as valid as Arena for the users that like them.

Your "bèèèèeèèèd" is what you lie on HG (metaphorically speaking).



Chris

[Christopher Conkie]

To me that seems the most convenient method for installing engines.

To you, not to the people who use Arena. They ask us for easy ways to do something. Your way is not easy and that is why people even buy products like ChessBase, ShredderGUI, Aquarium.......let alone use Arena which is free.

Well it is a lot easier than what I had to do last time I tried Arena...

But of course you are not going to tell here how Arena does it better, right? That might disturb the illusion you so carefully try to create by hollow rethoric.

I remember a day when you asked me how to install Vista and then configure it. You remember? How could you forget?



Don't even go there HG.....

Everyone uses what they find most comfortable for what they want to do.



Chris

[Michael Diosi]

Hi,


to find out which is the relevant GUI goto:

http://www.google.com
and type chess GUI

you can also try going here:
http://www.yahoo.com

so you can see what people klick when looking for a chess interface. It is not Winboard nor ChessBase.

Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com

[Christopher Conkie]

Fact:
WinBoard has a native Linux port, called XBoard, and the two are now nearly equivalent in capabilities and features.

And have the same lack of usability for the average user.....

I don't get that comment at all. I know several chess players, non-computer-scientists, that use xboard or winboard (depending on their O/S of choice) to play online chess, or play against a computer, or practice before going to a live tournament. I started using xboard in 1994 when I wrote the initial version of Crafty. It took me all of 15 minutes to download the thing (modem at the time) and get connected to (at the time) ICS (before they went commercial and became ICC).

what, exactly, is supposedly so hard to do in xboard? I have used it for engine-vs-engine testing/debugging, to play crafty, to run Crafty in online events, to play on ICC myself as a human, to observe games in progress, to examing games on ICC and even let Crafty give me scores and such as I step through the games... I don't get this "xboard is too difficult to use."

Fact:
Arena at the moment does not have a native Linux port. Will it arrive in any reasonable time, or are the promises for this by the Arena team as fabricated as their statements about XBoard? Who knows?

You don't, that's for sure.

How can it be a fabrication to say that configuring an engine for use in Winboard or Xboard is a bind? It just is and there are no two ways about it.

I don't get that either. Earlier versions required "-fcp engine-of-your-choice" and "-fd directory-to-run-engine-in" Not exactly rocket science...

The interface badly needs a makeover and functionality to allow users to be able to get started as quickly as possible with the minimum of fuss.

The Arena site is called playwitharena because you just can.

The Winboard site should be called getfrustratedwithwinboard because that is what most users find it to be.

You say you want feedback. I've given you feedback. The interface in Winboard/Xboard is unwieldy, badly thought out, unhelpful, lacks any automation, bland and not user friendly at all.

Chris

We get asked for wizards to do all that which is why we maintain an engines.ini file for that purpose. I don't think HG gets the difference between an ordinary joe and a techie yet. We live in hope.

We have spoken about your request for an interfaceless Arena for those (like yourself) who may want to use it without the normal overheads. Just to let you know that it is a distinct possibility.

Chris