Stunning Komodo

[Dann Corbit]

i just hope when Dan and Larry release MP version they will make it available for up to 16 cpu.i will def pay for it.in fact i dont mind doing a bit of private testing for them.i will still pay for it.

It's 'Don' as in 'Don Dailey'.

I am not sure where 'Dan' came from because it is definitely Don with an 'o' and not Dan with an 'a'.

[benstoker]

You can follow the latest development version of Komodo in TCEC C which is live right now.

http://www.tcec-chess.org/tcec_c.php

Not sure that I can reveal Don's internal testing results of strength, but
just let's say it's gonna be a real treat when he releases it to the public.

Best,
Martin

Nice to see somebody take the Ippo* code to the next level.

That is really insulting to Don's hard work, and unwarranted.

[yanquis1972]

in other words, he didn't use ippo code. even if he did, i don't see how it's 'next level'. i personally wouldn't mind don using some kind of ippo/rybka search, but i'm quite sure he won't do that.

[benstoker]

Have you any proof that Dan has used Ippo code in the way you suggest? If not, better keep yourt mouth shut because otherwise you are commiting an insult.

Fern

Wow. It's all about "originality", right? And "originality" has to do with IDEAS, not CODE, right? Thus, copying one-input-one-output functions doesn't penalize "originality", right? The money is in those one-input-possible-many-outputs functions, such as Search() and Evaluate(), right?

Kaufman has here made numerous inquiries about the mechanisms of Ippo's Search(). And he's talked about how they are exploring Ippo's Search(), and it's all-nodes and cut-nodes, etc; and how they have tried out various aspects of Ippo's Eval(), etc. (as well as Stockfish's) in Komodo and how it works or doesn't work for them. Kaufman wants to understand what makes Ippo tick. What's wrong with that? Komodo apparently uses ALL of the same (and surely more) Eval() params Kaufman used in R3 and therefore Ippo*.

Thus, I hope they eventually do figure Ippo's IDEAS out and kick some Komodo ass. So, put a sock in it, cowboy.

[Dann Corbit]

Have you any proof that Dan has used Ippo code in the way you suggest? If not, better keep yourt mouth shut because otherwise you are commiting an insult.

Fern

Wow. It's all about "originality", right? And "originality" has to do with IDEAS, not CODE, right? Thus, copying one-input-one-output functions doesn't penalize "originality", right? The money is in those one-input-possible-many-outputs functions, such as Search() and Evaluate(), right?

Kaufman has here made numerous inquiries about the mechanisms of Ippo's Search(). And he's talked about how they are exploring Ippo's Search(), and it's all-nodes and cut-nodes, etc; and how they have tried out various aspects of Ippo's Eval(), etc. (as well as Stockfish's) in Komodo and how it works or doesn't work for them. Kaufman wants to understand what makes Ippo tick. What's wrong with that? Komodo apparently uses ALL of the same (and surely more) Eval() params Kaufman used in R3 and therefore Ippo*.

Thus, I hope they eventually do figure Ippo's IDEAS out and kick some Komodo ass. So, put a sock in it, cowboy.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with using ideas.
Further, Larry Kaufman worked with the Rybka team in designing the evaluation, so ideas like material imbalance:
http://home.comcast.net/~danheisman/Art ... alance.htm
are going to be found in both places, but Don will implement things in his own way.

The tone of your original post was simlar to the tone of your response "put a sock in it, cowboy".

There is a big difference from:
"Perhaps the Komodo team has learned something from the Ippo* design"
and
"Nice to see somebody take the Ippo* code to the next level."

Actually, I think that the impact of the Ippo* code so far is very small. People have not had enough time to learn from it. The impact of Fruit and Stockfish is far, far greater (so far).

[benstoker]

Have you any proof that Dan has used Ippo code in the way you suggest? If not, better keep yourt mouth shut because otherwise you are commiting an insult.

Fern

Wow. It's all about "originality", right? And "originality" has to do with IDEAS, not CODE, right? Thus, copying one-input-one-output functions doesn't penalize "originality", right? The money is in those one-input-possible-many-outputs functions, such as Search() and Evaluate(), right?

Kaufman has here made numerous inquiries about the mechanisms of Ippo's Search(). And he's talked about how they are exploring Ippo's Search(), and it's all-nodes and cut-nodes, etc; and how they have tried out various aspects of Ippo's Eval(), etc. (as well as Stockfish's) in Komodo and how it works or doesn't work for them. Kaufman wants to understand what makes Ippo tick. What's wrong with that? Komodo apparently uses ALL of the same (and surely more) Eval() params Kaufman used in R3 and therefore Ippo*.

Thus, I hope they eventually do figure Ippo's IDEAS out and kick some Komodo ass. So, put a sock in it, cowboy.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with using ideas.
Further, Larry Kaufman worked with the Rybka team in designing the evaluation, so ideas like material imbalance:
http://home.comcast.net/~danheisman/Art ... alance.htm
are going to be found in both places, but Don will implement things in his own way.

The tone of your original post was simlar to the tone of your response "put a sock in it, cowboy".

"Nice to see someone take ippo to the next level" != ("Shut up" || "put a sock ..")
"shut up" == "put a sock ..."

There is a big difference from:
"Perhaps the Komodo team has learned something from the Ippo* design"
and
"Nice to see somebody take the Ippo* code to the next level."

Actually, I think that the impact of the Ippo* code so far is very small. People have not had enough time to learn from it. The impact of Fruit and Stockfish is far, far greater (so far).

Okay. Let's move on. I would imagine that the near chaos of the Ippo* code, and void of any commentary, explains why ppl haven't learned a lot from the ippo code. But, hats off to Komodo devs for trying.

[slobo]

Have you any proof that Dan has used Ippo code in the way you suggest? If not, better keep yourt mouth shut because otherwise you are commiting an insult.

Fern

Wow. It's all about "originality", right? And "originality" has to do with IDEAS, not CODE, right? Thus, copying one-input-one-output functions doesn't penalize "originality", right? The money is in those one-input-possible-many-outputs functions, such as Search() and Evaluate(), right?

Kaufman has here made numerous inquiries about the mechanisms of Ippo's Search(). And he's talked about how they are exploring Ippo's Search(), and it's all-nodes and cut-nodes, etc; and how they have tried out various aspects of Ippo's Eval(), etc. (as well as Stockfish's) in Komodo and how it works or doesn't work for them. Kaufman wants to understand what makes Ippo tick. What's wrong with that? Komodo apparently uses ALL of the same (and surely more) Eval() params Kaufman used in R3 and therefore Ippo*.

Thus, I hope they eventually do figure Ippo's IDEAS out and kick some Komodo ass. So, put a sock in it, cowboy.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with using ideas.
Further, Larry Kaufman worked with the Rybka team in designing the evaluation, so ideas like material imbalance:
http://home.comcast.net/~danheisman/Art ... alance.htm
are going to be found in both places, but Don will implement things in his own way.

The tone of your original post was simlar to the tone of your response "put a sock in it, cowboy".

There is a big difference from:
"Perhaps the Komodo team has learned something from the Ippo* design"
and
"Nice to see somebody take the Ippo* code to the next level."

Actually, I think that the impact of the Ippo* code so far is very small. People have not had enough time to learn from it. The impact of Fruit and Stockfish is far, far greater (so far).

Of course, comrade Lenin.

[fern]

It depends how you define ideas, a very general term indeed. Besides, you does not have, also, any "idea" about which ideas Don used.
Specifically cloning or copying has only one referent, objetive referent: codes lines. If you go further you fall in the middle of a very fussy terrain.

Don was creating engines long before those guys in the Septembrist movement were born. If someone got "ideas" from another guy, they did with Don and the rest of the known an respected programers.

Fern