Engin Ustun, Houdini and Critter.

[Chan Rasjid]

since 1980 , what do you doing so long time then now ??

i am interested from 1985 about computerchess, but first try to write a chessprogramm fails, then i tryed again in end of 1995 so first release of my EnginMax was about 1999/2000 i thought, and this had first rating of about 1500 elo i think.

i do not copy any sources before and i dont come after fruit or ippolit area with a 3000 engine.

the rating of actual Tornado about 2800 elo is long long way of try and fails many many years of my hard working on it.

may i had to do easier if i copy any sources from Fruit, SF or like ippolit ?

People are simply born with different talents and abilities and your ability in chess and programming cannot be the same as that of Bob Hyatt, Vasik, Milos, Jouna & Marco, Robert Houdart, Richard Vida. So you took many years to create a 2800 Elo engines. Vasik took just one year after the release of Fruit's sources to come out with an all-time winner Rybka 1.0 - he is smart and got the hints juts reading through the sources of Fruit. So what Vasik did, Robert Houdart or Richard Vida could easily do, nothing really very special - provided your talent is in chess and programming. If for every 20 lines of new codes you add there is one line with a serious bug, then you could not be as fast as Richard Vida with Critter - what he does in one year, it will take you eight years... so nothing really surprising that Houdini and Critter seem to appear 'ALL OF A SUDDEN' - but you may not know they already are well versed in all aspect of chess programming.

There are no secrets of chess programming here in this forum - nearly everything there is in chess programming have been discussed and hinted at by various posters. To get out an Elo 3000 engine is not too difficult to someone talented in programming and with the hardware + patience to do testing.

Best regards,
Rasjid.

[zullil]

He (Houdart) has come out with nothing in 25 years and you call that talent?

I can produce the same nothing in much less time...

Your statement is at best misleading. Mr. Houdart has been creating chess engines (and GUIs) since at least 1993. In fact, he was kind enough to send me the Delphi source code of two of his earlier projects.

[Chan Rasjid]

He (Houdart) has come out with nothing in 25 years and you call that talent?

I can produce the same nothing in much less time...

In the span of 25 years, as Ustun hinted, he slept most of the time, but he slept much less then some in biblical time who slept and did nothing for 500 years. Also he had to look at stars, etc and only lately, with the release of ippolit, was he again interested in developing his chess program. But the state of the art has greatly improved and only now can he come out with a top engine. It still need talent to write and 8-core smp engine.

All in he took about one year recent time to gain 1500 elo.

Rasjid.

[Engin]

its not need any talent to took an allready maked 3200 elo engine and improve it to +50 elo or even +150 elo in about 1 year.

i improved my engine every version with +50 elo, and began from 1500 elo to now 2800 elo engine , there are about 1300 elo difference since more then 20 years.

why he (Haudart) not to do any improvements since last 30 years, and he dont want shared that with us ?

[OliverUwira]

Sorry but has this place gone completely mad??? I really don't give a damn about whether Houdini is a clone or not but it really p.... me off to see people question the talent of a programmer who has a record of steady improvement.

So are you basically saying that if one doesn't make leaps like Houdini or Critter one is just a talentless lump? Really, what do you consider more likely? That Engin copied from others and is just to thick to make it work? Couldn't it, on the other hand, perhaps, be the case that he just does stuff on his own and that is why Tornado only went from about ELO 1900 back in 2006 to ELO 2008 as of now?

Just the other day I saw Ben-Hur Carlos Langoni being attacked with a suggestion that RedQueen is not really his own work. That was another such case of silly buggers.

PS @Engin: You've received far too much heat for your recent posts but for part of that heat you have to blame yourself. Those are sensitive topics and if you address them in such broken English, it is very easy to come across as a jealous guy. I hate to see those reactions to your posts because I know they are unjustified.

[Engin]

yes, your are right, i will close it

those people have nothing shamless about all, they want to see only ones, getting a number one engine for every prices, everybody applause they have success to climb number one, without to ask how or where it is comes, i dont believe that this comes from hard working or any talents of them, its easier to copy/paste then starting from zero, they are may to lazy for such huge work and didnt know how to begin to become first start good engine.

[Terry McCracken]

Sorry but has this place gone completely mad???

YES!!

[Cubeman]

I feel the same about my over the board chess capabilities.I have been playing competitive chess for just on 20 years and have made a slow improvement to 2100 Elo, and I see these young ones born in the early 90's surpass my level after only 5 years of competitive chess, I think they must be cheating somehow, or are just talentless players that have the luck of excellent memory to have prepared lines against me.
Or maybe the real reason is that they are more talented than me, which seems like the more plausible answer.

[Roger Brown]

I feel the same about my over the board chess capabilities.I have been playing competitive chess for just on 20 years and have made a slow improvement to 2100 Elo, and I see these young ones born in the early 90's surpass my level after only 5 years of competitive chess, I think they must be cheating somehow, or are just talentless players that have the luck of excellent memory to have prepared lines against me.
Or maybe the real reason is that they are more talented than me, which seems like the more plausible answer.

Hello Alex,

In those moments of contemplation of the young turks, think of those of us (alright ME, I am jealous, I admit it!)who look at your rating and would consider life well spent if we achieved it (or even approached it!).



Perspective is the secret of a satisfied life.

Later.

Ps. Perspective means recognising that there will always be those who are more ______ than us.

[Chan Rasjid]

its not need any talent to took an allready maked 3200 elo engine and improve it to +50 elo or even +150 elo in about 1 year.

i improved my engine every version with +50 elo, and began from 1500 elo to now 2800 elo engine , there are about 1300 elo difference since more then 20 years.

why he (Haudart) not to do any improvements since last 30 years, and he dont want shared that with us ?

Wrong !

You still need 'some little' talent to take the codes of Ippolit, have some understanding of the codes, clear some bugs, add in 8-core smp, etc and make it stronger - not many can do it. Milos and Norman could do it and they need some basic talent. If it is so simple, then Vasik could have routinely added 100Elo per year at least - but it is not so.

Robert Houdart made it clear in the Open forum that he 'almost cloned ippolit' to start with. It is like this. If there is a bishop pst in ippolit, why should it be deliberately changed to different values when those of ippolit are proven working with elo 3000; we change it only if we have reasons to do so or we have the time to test for better values. If ippolit limits futility to depth 4, why should he deliberately not also use the same depth limit of 4 - - that's how Robert Houdart did it as he said.

Many things in chess programming have been discussed and Robert Houdart had already enough of information to start with and to test other ideas he has . It could also be true that he could not get out a top engine in the past before the sources of Ippolit - nothing unusual.

Also there is no reason Robert Houdart should reveal his secret recipes for all to use - chess programming is a competitive game, not _save_mankind's_body_and_soul charity.

Rasjid