Page **1** of **2**

### test position for any new program rated above 3300elo

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:17 am**

by **kgburcham**

since you are this far, go on and try your program too.

[D] 4n3/pp5p/6k1/2P2pp1/5p2/2B2P2/PPK3PP/8 w - -

### Re: test position for any new program rated above 3300elo

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:10 am**

by **yanquis1972**

are you sure there is only one move?

### Re: test position for any new program rated above 3300elo

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:58 am**

by **tano-urayoan**

at least 15 i count

### Re: test position for any new program rated above 3300elo

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:39 am**

by **M ANSARI**

On my very much less than 3300 elo rated engine (my brain) Be5 seems to be the easiest win. It locks the black knight and helps support agaist a pawn rush by black ... also the black king needs too much time to move it out of the way. In the meantime the white King goes and mops up on the queenside or at least forces a passer. I really don't think any engine can miss that.

### Re: test position for any new program rated above 3300elo

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:56 am**

by **OliverUwira**

M ANSARI wrote:On my very much less than 3300 elo rated engine (my brain) Be5 seems to be the easiest win. It locks the black knight and helps support a pawn rush by black ... also the black king needs too much time to move it out of the way. In the meantime the white King goes and mops up on the queenside. I really don't think any engine can miss that.

Well done. Humanity still has it's strengths.

One little caveat: After 1. Be5 Kf7 2. Kc3 Ke6 3. Kd4 White cannot directly mop up the queenside. However, White will simply create a passed pawn. exchange at c7 and then mop up the kingside

I would imagine that this is not so easy for engines to see. Especially because 1. Be5 is just the most straightforward win, but not the only one.

One the other hand, knight domination seems to be rather easy to implement.

### Re: test position for any new program rated above 3300elo

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:57 am**

by **Kurt Utzinger**

First of all: there is no program over 3300 Elo !! Elo 2200 are more than sufficient to find a move like 1.Be5 in this position. Here the solution of Deep Shreeder 12 Linux on Quad Q6600/2.4 GHz:

Code: Select all

```
1 +0.45 1.Kd3 Sc7 2.Kc4 (0.04)
2 +0.45 1.Kd3 Sc7 2.Kc4 (0.04)
3 +0.45 1.Kd3 Sc7 2.Kc4 (0.04)
4 +0.48 1.Kd3 Sc7 2.Kc4 g4 (0.04)
4 +0.57 1.Le5 h5 2.b4 a6 (0.04)
5 +0.39 1.Le5 Kf7 2.b4 Ke6 3.Lc3 Sc7 (0.04)
5 +0.55 1.Kd3 g4 2.b4 Kg5 3.Le5 h5 (0.04)
6 +0.54 1.Kd3 Sc7 2.Kc4 g4 3.b4 Kg5 4.b5 (0.05)
7 +0.63 1.Kd3 Kf7 2.Ld4 a6 3.b4 Ke6 4.Kc4 g4 (0.06)
8 +0.50 1.Kd3 Kf7 2.Ld4 a6 3.b4 Ke6 4.Kc4 Sc7 5.a4 Sd5 (0.06)
8 +0.64 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h3 h4 (0.07)
9 +0.63 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 (0.08)
10 +0.87 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h3 h4 6.a3 Ke7 (0.13)
11 +1.05 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h3 h4 6.a3 Kd7 7.Kd5 Ke7 (0.32)
12 +0.93 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h3 h4 6.a3 Kf7 7.Kd5 Kg6 8.b4 (0.34)
13 +1.01 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h3 h4 6.a3 Kf7 7.Kd5 Ke7 8.Lc3 Sc7+ 9.Ke5 (0.38)
14 +1.15 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h6 5.a3 h5 6.h3 Kd7 7.b4 a4 8.Kd5 h4 9.b5 Ke7 10.c6 (0.61)
15 +1.29 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 Sf6 7.Lg5 Sd5 8.Lxh4 Sf4 9.g3 Se2+ 10.Kc4 (1.27)
16 +1.29 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 Sf6 7.Lg5 Sd5 8.Lxh4 Sf4 9.g3 Se2+ 10.Kc4 (1.54)
17 +1.28 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 Sf6 7.Lg5 Sd5 8.Lxh4 Sf4 9.g3 Se2+ 10.Ke3 (2.01)
18 +1.28 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 Sf6 7.Lg5 Sd5 8.Lxh4 Sf4 9.g3 Se2+ 10.Ke3 (5.69)
19 +1.35 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 Sf6 7.Lg5 Sd5 8.Lxh4 Sf4 9.g3 Se2+ 10.Ke3 (6.92)
20 +1.33 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.a4 Kd7 7.Kd5 Ke7 8.Lxf4 Sf6+ 9.Kd4 Ke6 10.Lg5 Sd5 11.Lxh4 Sf4 (8.19)
21 +1.81 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.a4 Kd7 7.Kd5 Ke7 8.Lxf4 Sf6+ 9.Ke5 Sd7+ 10.Kd4 h3 11.gxh3 Kf6 (28.27)
22 +1.38 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.a4 Kd7 7.Kd5 Sc7+ 8.Lxc7 Kxc7 9.Ke5 Kc6 10.Kxf4 Kxc5 (32.77)
23 +1.96 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 g4 6.Lxf4 gxf3 7.gxf3 Sf6 8.Ld2 Sd7 9.Lxa5 Se5 10.Ke3 Sg6 11.c6 bxc6 (75.66)
24 +2.21 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 g4 6.a3 Kd7 7.Lxf4 gxf3 8.gxf3 Ke6 9.a4 Sf6 10.Lc7 Sd5 11.Lxa5 Se7 (157.96)
```

### Re: test position for any new program rated above 3300elo

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:35 pm**

by **Albert Silver**

Kurt Utzinger wrote:First of all: there is no program over 3300 Elo !! Elo 2200 are more than sufficient to find a move like 1.Be5 in this position. Here the solution of Deep Shreeder 12 Linux on Quad Q6600/2.4 GHz:

Elo is not an absolute, so I could have a list with programs rated 5000 Elo if my baseline was 3000.

BTW, Are you relly sure Deep Shredder is only rated 2200?

### Re: test position for any new program rated above 3300elo

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:37 pm**

by **Kurt Utzinger**

Albert Silver wrote:Kurt Utzinger wrote:First of all: there is no program over 3300 Elo !! Elo 2200 are more than sufficient to find a move like 1.Be5 in this position. Here the solution of Deep Shreeder 12 Linux on Quad Q6600/2.4 GHz:

Elo is not an absolute, so I could have a list with programs rated 5000 Elo if my baseline was 3000.

BTW, Are you relly sure Deep Shredder is only rated 2200?

Deep Shredder 12 Linux is of course stronger than 2200 Elo. My point was that you do not need much Elo to find that 1.Be5 is the winning move.

Kurt

### Re: test position for any new program rated above 3300elo

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:54 pm**

by **fern**

The best, right. No need of calculations, just a matter of positional acumen, that clearly you have

my best

fern

### Re: test position for any new program rated above 3300elo

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:21 pm**

by **bob**

Kurt Utzinger wrote:First of all: there is no program over 3300 Elo !! Elo 2200 are more than sufficient to find a move like 1.Be5 in this position. Here the solution of Deep Shreeder 12 Linux on Quad Q6600/2.4 GHz:

Code: Select all

```
1 +0.45 1.Kd3 Sc7 2.Kc4 (0.04)
2 +0.45 1.Kd3 Sc7 2.Kc4 (0.04)
3 +0.45 1.Kd3 Sc7 2.Kc4 (0.04)
4 +0.48 1.Kd3 Sc7 2.Kc4 g4 (0.04)
4 +0.57 1.Le5 h5 2.b4 a6 (0.04)
5 +0.39 1.Le5 Kf7 2.b4 Ke6 3.Lc3 Sc7 (0.04)
5 +0.55 1.Kd3 g4 2.b4 Kg5 3.Le5 h5 (0.04)
6 +0.54 1.Kd3 Sc7 2.Kc4 g4 3.b4 Kg5 4.b5 (0.05)
7 +0.63 1.Kd3 Kf7 2.Ld4 a6 3.b4 Ke6 4.Kc4 g4 (0.06)
8 +0.50 1.Kd3 Kf7 2.Ld4 a6 3.b4 Ke6 4.Kc4 Sc7 5.a4 Sd5 (0.06)
8 +0.64 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h3 h4 (0.07)
9 +0.63 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 (0.08)
10 +0.87 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h3 h4 6.a3 Ke7 (0.13)
11 +1.05 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h3 h4 6.a3 Kd7 7.Kd5 Ke7 (0.32)
12 +0.93 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h3 h4 6.a3 Kf7 7.Kd5 Kg6 8.b4 (0.34)
13 +1.01 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h3 h4 6.a3 Kf7 7.Kd5 Ke7 8.Lc3 Sc7+ 9.Ke5 (0.38)
14 +1.15 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h6 5.a3 h5 6.h3 Kd7 7.b4 a4 8.Kd5 h4 9.b5 Ke7 10.c6 (0.61)
15 +1.29 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 Sf6 7.Lg5 Sd5 8.Lxh4 Sf4 9.g3 Se2+ 10.Kc4 (1.27)
16 +1.29 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 Sf6 7.Lg5 Sd5 8.Lxh4 Sf4 9.g3 Se2+ 10.Kc4 (1.54)
17 +1.28 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 Sf6 7.Lg5 Sd5 8.Lxh4 Sf4 9.g3 Se2+ 10.Ke3 (2.01)
18 +1.28 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 Sf6 7.Lg5 Sd5 8.Lxh4 Sf4 9.g3 Se2+ 10.Ke3 (5.69)
19 +1.35 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.Lxf4 Sf6 7.Lg5 Sd5 8.Lxh4 Sf4 9.g3 Se2+ 10.Ke3 (6.92)
20 +1.33 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.a4 Kd7 7.Kd5 Ke7 8.Lxf4 Sf6+ 9.Kd4 Ke6 10.Lg5 Sd5 11.Lxh4 Sf4 (8.19)
21 +1.81 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.a4 Kd7 7.Kd5 Ke7 8.Lxf4 Sf6+ 9.Ke5 Sd7+ 10.Kd4 h3 11.gxh3 Kf6 (28.27)
22 +1.38 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 gxh4 6.a4 Kd7 7.Kd5 Sc7+ 8.Lxc7 Kxc7 9.Ke5 Kc6 10.Kxf4 Kxc5 (32.77)
23 +1.96 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 g4 6.Lxf4 gxf3 7.gxf3 Sf6 8.Ld2 Sd7 9.Lxa5 Se5 10.Ke3 Sg6 11.c6 bxc6 (75.66)
24 +2.21 1.Le5 Kf7 2.Kc3 Ke6 3.Kd4 a5 4.b3 h5 5.h4 g4 6.a3 Kd7 7.Lxf4 gxf3 8.gxf3 Ke6 9.a4 Sf6 10.Lc7 Sd5 11.Lxa5 Se7 (157.96)
```

Nice to see a Linux user pop in here and there.