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Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:17 am
by UncombedCoconut
MikeB wrote:
Milos wrote:
MikeB wrote: The position is not possibe from a real game of chess - but Crafty sees the 8+1 queens on both sides and is happy to oblige.
Why it is not possible???
It's quite possible, it's however highly improbable.
It's impossible for both sides - black and white to promote all 16 pawns to Q. Think about how each side would get ALL the pawns to the queenning square. There are not enough non-pawn pieces on the board to facilitate the column manuevering for the pawns to pass each other. It is not "highly improbable" , but 100% impossible.
Thinking about it is too much effort (IMO), but even with brute force one can reach the 18-queen position. Example solution: http://pastebin.com/YvqJKtG4. I am sure a person who wished to "golf" the final position could improve the solution significantly.

Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:33 am
by bob
Graham Banks wrote:
bob wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
Milos wrote:
MikeB wrote: The position is not possibe from a real game of chess - but Crafty sees the 8+1 queens on both sides and is happy to oblige.
Why it is not possible???
It's quite possible, it's however highly improbable.
Wouldn't the last move have had to have been a pawn promoting to a queen, in which case the square from which it had moved would be empty?
Why? one can first create 8 new queens, then shuffle them at will to reach that position...
Suggest what the last move could have been. I'm looking at the position where there are no empty squares on the board.
I'm looking at the position posted in the post you replied to... As I said, the original position is illegal for several reasons...

Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:49 am
by Graham Banks
bob wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
bob wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
Milos wrote:
MikeB wrote: The position is not possibe from a real game of chess - but Crafty sees the 8+1 queens on both sides and is happy to oblige.
Why it is not possible???
It's quite possible, it's however highly improbable.
Wouldn't the last move have had to have been a pawn promoting to a queen, in which case the square from which it had moved would be empty?
Why? one can first create 8 new queens, then shuffle them at will to reach that position...
Suggest what the last move could have been. I'm looking at the position where there are no empty squares on the board.
I'm looking at the position posted in the post you replied to... As I said, the original position is illegal for several reasons...
Yes - I've already pointed out that I was referring to the position where there were no empty squares on the board. The one you're referring to is obviously okay.

Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:14 am
by hgm
Interesting is how most engines completely mis-evaluate such extreme positions. E.g. Crafty thinks it is ahead about +8 as black in

[d]1q1qk1q1/3ppp2/8/8/8/2NNNN2/3PPP2/1N1NK1N1 w

As white is might even resign after a few moves, in this overwhelmingly won position. (Or was that only when white had 6 Knights? I forgot.)
(It cannot handle the more elegant position with a filled Pawn rank, which is won just as easily.)

[d]1q1qk1q1/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/NNNNKNNN w

Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:56 pm
by Kirk
Other than Hagrid, only Aristarch has not crashed so far (Chesspartner 5.4)


00:00:00.0 -3.35 1 10 Qaxb5
00:00:00.0 0.13 2 655 Qaxb5 Qhxg4
00:00:00.0 -3.04 3 902 Qaxb5 Qaxb5 Qgxh5
00:00:00.2 -2.94 4 98369 Qaxb5 Qaxb5 Qgxh5 Qaa4 Qbxa4
00:00:01.4 -3.18 5 742710 Qaxb5 Qaxb5 Qgxh5 Qaa4 Qgg4
00:00:02.2 -3.04 6 1229579 Qaxb5 Qaxb5 Qgxh5 Qaa4 Qgg4 Q7a5 Qgxf5 Qgxf5

http://www.friedelprivat.de/

(Snitch would not calculate)