[d]qqqqkqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQKQQQ w - -
What do you mean it's not a real chess position? I want to see it analyzed.
So far, every engine has crashed instantly except Rybka of all the engines that I tried, but Rybka refused to utter a single syllable after 15 mintues of thought. I think the slimy fish knows the answer, but he's not telling just to spite me.
Still looking for the engine that can analyze this position
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit
I thought it's quite obvious, at least for human, mate in 32. First move doesn't matter.Dann Corbit wrote:What do you mean it's not a real chess position? I want to see it analyzed.
So far, every engine has crashed instantly except Rybka of all the engines that I tried, but Rybka refused to utter a single syllable after 15 mintues of thought. I think the slimy fish knows the answer, but he's not telling just to spite me.
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Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit
Stockfish crashes instantly with this position. My RedQueen doesn't crash, but the search gets so slow that you have to wait for a looooong time to see the first iteration completed. Anyway I haven't waited to see it completed, I just forced a bestmove response with the stop command.Dann Corbit wrote:[d]qqqqkqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQKQQQ w - -
What do you mean it's not a real chess position? I want to see it analyzed.
So far, every engine has crashed instantly except Rybka of all the engines that I tried, but Rybka refused to utter a single syllable after 15 mintues of thought. I think the slimy fish knows the answer, but he's not telling just to spite me.
As the board is all filled with queens you don't have a bad capture to prune and every call to quies search gets too busy also because you have long capture sequences. Anyway it's an interesting position.
Thanks!
Code: Select all
Redqueen. Copyright (C) 2008-2010 Ben-Hur Carlos Vieira Langoni Junior.
position fen qqqqkqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQKQQQ w - -
go infinite
stop
info currmove a4a5 currmovenumber 1
info depth 1 seldepth 0
info depth 1 score cp 0 upperbound time 598180 nodes 492670259 nps 823863 pv a4a5
info nodes 492670259 time 598180 nps 823863 hashfull 1000
info currmove a4b5 currmovenumber 2
info currmove b4a5 currmovenumber 3
info currmove b4b5 currmovenumber 4
info currmove b4c5 currmovenumber 5
info currmove c4b5 currmovenumber 6
info currmove c4c5 currmovenumber 7
info currmove c4d5 currmovenumber 8
info currmove d4c5 currmovenumber 9
info currmove d4d5 currmovenumber 10
info currmove d4e5 currmovenumber 11
info currmove e4d5 currmovenumber 12
info currmove e4e5 currmovenumber 13
info currmove e4f5 currmovenumber 14
info currmove f4e5 currmovenumber 15
info currmove f4f5 currmovenumber 16
info currmove f4g5 currmovenumber 17
info currmove g4f5 currmovenumber 18
info currmove g4g5 currmovenumber 19
info currmove g4h5 currmovenumber 20
info currmove h4g5 currmovenumber 21
info currmove h4h5 currmovenumber 22
info depth 1 seldepth 0 nodes 492670259
info currmove a4a5 currmovenumber 1
info depth 2 seldepth 0
info depth 2 score cp 0 upperbound time 598180 nodes 492670259 nps 823863 pv a4a5
info nodes 492670259 time 598180 nps 823863 hashfull 1000
info currmove a4b5 currmovenumber 2
info currmove b4a5 currmovenumber 3
info currmove b4b5 currmovenumber 4
info currmove b4c5 currmovenumber 5
info currmove c4b5 currmovenumber 6
info currmove c4c5 currmovenumber 7
info currmove c4d5 currmovenumber 8
info currmove d4c5 currmovenumber 9
info currmove d4d5 currmovenumber 10
info currmove d4e5 currmovenumber 11
info currmove e4d5 currmovenumber 12
info currmove e4e5 currmovenumber 13
info currmove e4f5 currmovenumber 14
info currmove f4e5 currmovenumber 15
info currmove f4f5 currmovenumber 16
info currmove f4g5 currmovenumber 17
info currmove g4f5 currmovenumber 18
info currmove g4g5 currmovenumber 19
info currmove g4h5 currmovenumber 20
info currmove h4g5 currmovenumber 21
info currmove h4h5 currmovenumber 22
info depth 2 seldepth 0 nodes 492670259
info depth 2 seldepth 0
info depth 2 score cp 0 time 598180 nodes 492670259 nps 823863 pv a4a5
info nodes 492670259 time 598180 nps 823863 hashfull 1000
bestmove a4a5
Ben-Hur Carlos Langoni Junior
http://sourceforge.net/projects/redqueenchess/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/redqueenchess/
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Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit
I like this one better:
[d]1b1bkb1b/b1b1b1b1/1b1b1b1b/b1b1b1b1/1b1b1b1b/b1b1b1b1/1b1b1b1b/b1bKbBb1 w
Also a lot easier to analyze. (White wins, of course.)
I don't think it is realistic to assume an engine could be built that could analyze your all-Queens position. That would be about as complicated as searching all the way to checkmate from the FIDE opening. The first 30 moves or so of any sensible variant will all consist of captures, so the material score is quite meaningless. Only after the first 30 captures you will have any idea if you have been doing well, or not (when you suddenly run out of captures, and are a Queen down). That means you basically have nothing to go on. (Perhaps maximizing the number of captures would do some good?)
Even with perfect move ordering and obligatory capture the game tree would be way too big to get a meaningful root score.
[d]1b1bkb1b/b1b1b1b1/1b1b1b1b/b1b1b1b1/1b1b1b1b/b1b1b1b1/1b1b1b1b/b1bKbBb1 w
Also a lot easier to analyze. (White wins, of course.)
I don't think it is realistic to assume an engine could be built that could analyze your all-Queens position. That would be about as complicated as searching all the way to checkmate from the FIDE opening. The first 30 moves or so of any sensible variant will all consist of captures, so the material score is quite meaningless. Only after the first 30 captures you will have any idea if you have been doing well, or not (when you suddenly run out of captures, and are a Queen down). That means you basically have nothing to go on. (Perhaps maximizing the number of captures would do some good?)
Even with perfect move ordering and obligatory capture the game tree would be way too big to get a meaningful root score.
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Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit
I wonder if a pure brute-force engine would not get all tied up in knots?Dann Corbit wrote:[d]qqqqkqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQKQQQ w - -
What do you mean it's not a real chess position? I want to see it analyzed.
So far, every engine has crashed instantly except Rybka of all the engines that I tried, but Rybka refused to utter a single syllable after 15 mintues of thought. I think the slimy fish knows the answer, but he's not telling just to spite me.
I will try it with an earlier version of Spike
Only have SCID at the office. Will not let me do that
http://spike.lazypics.de/downloads/spike_09a.zip
http://spike.lazypics.de/downloads/spike_07.zip
“He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious”
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Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit
The magical Zillions of Games engine analyzes it with no problems and gives after 1 minute at depth 3: 1.Qfxf5 +0.26Dann Corbit wrote:[d]qqqqkqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQKQQQ w - -
What do you mean it's not a real chess position? I want to see it analyzed.
So far, every engine has crashed instantly except Rybka of all the engines that I tried, but Rybka refused to utter a single syllable after 15 mintues of thought. I think the slimy fish knows the answer, but he's not telling just to spite me.
after 2 minutes at depth 4: 1.Qhxh5 +1.26 [updated at d4: 1.Qhxh5 +0.13]
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
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Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit
Crafty won't crash. But it will produce the correct error messages:Dann Corbit wrote:[d]qqqqkqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQKQQQ w - -
What do you mean it's not a real chess position? I want to see it analyzed.
So far, every engine has crashed instantly except Rybka of all the engines that I tried, but Rybka refused to utter a single syllable after 15 mintues of thought. I think the slimy fish knows the answer, but he's not telling just to spite me.
illegal position, too many white queens
illegal position, too many white pieces
illegal position, too many black queens
illegal position, too many black pieces
bad string = "qqqqkqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQKQQQ"
Illegal position, using normal initial chess position
Which is what a reasonable program ought to produce.
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Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit
A reasonable Chess program i guess you mean, because a reasonable general program for Chess variations should produce analysis.bob wrote: Crafty won't crash. But it will produce the correct error messages:
illegal position, too many white queens
illegal position, too many white pieces
illegal position, too many black queens
illegal position, too many black pieces
bad string = "qqqqkqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQKQQQ"
Illegal position, using normal initial chess position
Which is what a reasonable program ought to produce.
But as you put it, a reasonable Chess program should also produce an error message for the above position too. Does Crafty produces it or analyzes the position?
If the latter happens then Crafty is selective in analyzing non-Chess positions. and i guess the latter happens.
So instead of being selective in what positions to analyze it should just analyze them all, if the board is 8x8 and the pieces are all Chess pieces.
At least i find this better behavior than being selective.
[d]5r2/2k1p3/1bnp4/2p2N2/p3KP2/6P1/P1P5/1B2R3 w - - 0 1
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
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- Full name: Louis Zulli
Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit
Crafty finds this impossible position acceptable:George Tsavdaris wrote: But as you put it, a reasonable Chess program should also produce an error message for the above position too. Does Crafty produces it or analyzes the position?
[d]5r2/2k1p3/1bnp4/2p2N2/p3KP2/6P1/P1P5/1B2R3 w - - 0 1
Code: Select all
Crafty v23.4 (16 cpus)
White(1): setboard 5r2/2k1p3/1bnp4/2p2N2/p3KP2/6P1/P1P5/1B2R3 w - - 0 1
White(1): st 180
search time set to 180.00.
White(1): display
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
8 | | . | | . | |<R>| | . |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
7 | . | |<K>| |<P>| | . | |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
6 | |<B>|<N>|<P>| | . | | . |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
5 | . | |<P>| | . |-N-| . | |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
4 |<P>| . | | . |-K-|-P-| | . |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
3 | . | | . | | . | |-P-| |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
2 |-P-| . |-P-| . | | . | | . |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
1 | . |-B-| . | |-R-| | . | |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
a b c d e f g h
White(1): display stats
display statistics at end of each search.
White(1): go
time limit 3:00 (+0.00) (3:00)
depth time score variation (1)
starting thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 <done>
11-> 0.06 0.42 1. Ne3 e6 2. c4 Rh8 3. g4 Nd4 4. g5
Ba5 5. Rd1 Rh2 6. g6
12 0.09 0.38 1. Ne3 e6 2. c4 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh7
Ba5 5. Bd3 Rb8 6. g4 Rb2
12-> 0.09 0.38 1. Ne3 e6 2. c4 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh7
Ba5 5. Bd3 Rb8 6. g4 Rb2
13 0.11 0.25 1. Ne3 e6 2. c4 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh7
Ba5 5. Bd3 Rb8 6. g4 Rb2 7. a3
13-> 0.12 0.25 1. Ne3 e6 2. c4 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh7
Ba5 5. Bd3 Rb8 6. g4 Rb2 7. a3 (s=2)
14 0.16 0.35 1. Ne3 e6 2. c4 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh7
Ba5 5. Bd3 Rb8 6. g4 Rb2 7. Ra7 Kb6
14-> 0.18 0.35 1. Ne3 e6 2. c4 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh7
Ba5 5. Bd3 Rb8 6. g4 Rb2 7. Ra7 Kb6
15 0.24 0.15 1. Ne3 e6 2. c4 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh7
Bc7 5. Bd3 Rb8 6. f5 exf5+ 7. Nxf5
Rb2 8. Nxd4+ cxd4
15-> 0.32 0.15 1. Ne3 e6 2. c4 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh7
Bc7 5. Bd3 Rb8 6. f5 exf5+ 7. Nxf5
Rb2 8. Nxd4+ cxd4 (s=2)
16 0.45 0.00 1. Ne3 e6 2. c4 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh7
Bc7 5. Bd3 Rb8 6. Nc2 Rb2 7. Nxd4+
cxd4 8. g4 e5
16 0.86 0.33 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 e6 3. Ng7 Kd7 4. g4
Bc7 5. Kf3 Ne5+ 6. Kg3 Rf7 7. fxe5
Rxg7 8. exd6 Bxd6+ 9. Kf3 Rf7+ 10.
Ke4
16-> 0.89 0.33 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 e6 3. Ng7 Kd7 4. g4
Bc7 5. Kf3 Ne5+ 6. Kg3 Rf7 7. fxe5
Rxg7 8. exd6 Bxd6+ 9. Kf3 Rf7+ 10.
Ke4
17 1.04 0.24 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 e6 3. Ng7 Kd7 4. g4
Bc7 5. f5 d5+ 6. Kf3 Ne5+ 7. Ke2 exf5
8. Bxf5+ Kd6 9. Ne6 Rf7 10. Nxc7 Rxc7
17-> 1.12 0.24 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 e6 3. Ng7 Kd7 4. g4
Bc7 5. f5 d5+ 6. Kf3 Ne5+ 7. Ke2 exf5
8. Bxf5+ Kd6 9. Ne6 Rf7 10. Nxc7 Rxc7
18 1.37 0.02 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 e6 3. Ng7 Kd7 4. g4
Bc7 5. Kf3 Ne5+ 6. Kg3 Nxg4 7. Kxg4
Rg8 8. Rxe6 Rxg7+ 9. Rg6 Rxg6+ 10.
Bxg6
18-> 2.20 0.02 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 e6 3. Ng7 Kd7 4. g4
Bc7 5. Kf3 Ne5+ 6. Kg3 Nxg4 7. Kxg4
Rg8 8. Rxe6 Rxg7+ 9. Rg6 Rxg6+ 10.
Bxg6 (s=4)
19 2.56 0.11 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 e6 3. Ng7 Kd7 4. Kf3
Ne5+ 5. Ke2 Ng4 6. Rxe6 Bxc3 7. Rg6
Nf6 8. Bc2 a3 9. Kd3 Bd4 10. Ba4+ Ke7
11. Nf5+ Kf7 (s=3)
19-> 3.28 0.11 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 e6 3. Ng7 Kd7 4. Kf3
Ne5+ 5. Ke2 Ng4 6. Rxe6 Bxc3 7. Rg6
Nf6 8. Bc2 a3 9. Kd3 Bd4 10. Ba4+ Ke7
11. Nf5+ Kf7 (s=3)
20 4.34 0.14 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 e6 3. Ng7 Kd7 4. Kf3
Ne5+ 5. Ke2 Rb8 6. Bc2 Ng4 7. Re4 Rb2
8. Kd2 Rxa2 9. Rxa4 Rxa4 10. Bxa4+
Ke7 11. Kd3 (s=2)
20-> 5.22 0.14 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 e6 3. Ng7 Kd7 4. Kf3
Ne5+ 5. Ke2 Rb8 6. Bc2 Ng4 7. Re4 Rb2
8. Kd2 Rxa2 9. Rxa4 Rxa4 10. Bxa4+
Ke7 11. Kd3
21 9.28 0.06 1. c3 Ba5 2. Re3 Kd7 3. g4 e6 4. Ng7
Bc7 5. Kf3 Ne5+ 6. Kg3 Nxg4 7. Kxg4
Rg8 8. Rxe6 Rxg7+ 9. Rg6 Rxg6+ 10.
Bxg6 Ke6 11. c4 Kf6
21 20.10 0.33 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh6
Ba5 5. Bd3 Be1 6. Rg6 Bf2 7. Nc2 Re8
8. Nxd4+ cxd4 9. g4 Re7 10. Rg8 Rh7
11. Rc8+ Kb6
21-> 20.79 0.33 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Kc6 4. Rh6
Ba5 5. Bd3 Be1 6. Rg6 Bf2 7. Nc2 Re8
8. Nxd4+ cxd4 9. g4 Re7 10. Rg8 Rh7
11. Rc8+ Kb6 (s=3)
22 25.17 0.36 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Ba5 4. Bd3
Rb8 5. g4 Kc6 6. Nc2 d5+ 7. Ke3 Bc3
8. Nxd4+ Bxd4+ 9. Kf3 Rb2 10. Rh6 Kd7
11. a3 Rf2+ 12. Kg3 Rb2 13. Rh7+ Kd6
(s=2)
22-> 27.35 0.36 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Ba5 4. Bd3
Rb8 5. g4 Kc6 6. Nc2 d5+ 7. Ke3 Bc3
8. Nxd4+ Bxd4+ 9. Kf3 Rb2 10. Rh6 Kd7
11. a3 Rf2+ 12. Kg3 Rb2 13. Rh7+ Kd6
23 34.03 0.39 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Ba5 4. Bd3
Rb8 5. g4 Kc6 6. f5 exf5+ 7. gxf5 Rb2
8. f6 Rxa2 9. f7 Ne6 10. Rh5 Rb2 11.
Nd1 Rg2 12. Ne3
23-> 36.94 0.39 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Ba5 4. Bd3
Rb8 5. g4 Kc6 6. f5 exf5+ 7. gxf5 Rb2
8. f6 Rxa2 9. f7 Ne6 10. Rh5 Rb2 11.
Nd1 Rg2 12. Ne3
24 45.77 0.19 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Ba5 4. Nc2
Ne2 5. Kf3 Nc3 6. Ne3 Nxb1 7. Rxb1
Kc6 8. g4 Rh8 9. g5 Bd2 10. Ke4 Bxe3
11. Kxe3 Rh3+ 12. Ke4 Rc3 13. f5 Rxc4+
14. Kd3
24-> 53.60 0.19 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Ba5 4. Nc2
Ne2 5. Kf3 Nc3 6. Ne3 Nxb1 7. Rxb1
Kc6 8. g4 Rh8 9. g5 Bd2 10. Ke4 Bxe3
11. Kxe3 Rh3+ 12. Ke4 Rc3 13. f5 Rxc4+
14. Kd3
25 1:05 0.19 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Ba5 4. Nc2
Ne2 5. Kf3 Nc3 6. Ne3 Nxb1 7. Rxb1
Kc6 8. g4 Bc3 9. Ke4 Rh8 10. Rc1 Bd4
11. g5 Bxe3 12. Kxe3 Rh2 13. Ra1
25-> 1:16 0.19 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Ba5 4. Nc2
Ne2 5. Kf3 Nc3 6. Ne3 Nxb1 7. Rxb1
Kc6 8. g4 Bc3 9. Ke4 Rh8 10. Rc1 Bd4
11. g5 Bxe3 12. Kxe3 Rh2 13. Ra1
26 1:58 0.33 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Ba5 4. Bd3
Rb8 5. Rh7+ Kc6 6. Ra7 Bc7 7. Ra6+
Kb7 8. Rxa4 Kc6 9. Nc2 Rg8 10. Nxd4+
cxd4 11. Kf3 e5 12. Rb4 Rh8 13. a4
Rh2 14. Rb5 Ra2 15. Be4+ Kd7
26-> 2:18 0.33 1. c4 e6 2. Ne3 Nd4 3. Rh1 Ba5 4. Bd3
Rb8 5. Rh7+ Kc6 6. Ra7 Bc7 7. Ra6+
Kb7 8. Rxa4 Kc6 9. Nc2 Rg8 10. Nxd4+
cxd4 11. Kf3 e5 12. Rb4 Rh8 13. a4
Rh2 14. Rb5 Ra2 15. Be4+ Kd7
time=3:00 mat=0 n=4141454327 fh=89% nps=23.0M
extensions=99.8M qchecks=247.2M reduced=407.2M pruned=767.2M
predicted=0 evals=1707.5M 50move=0 EGTBprobes=1K hits=1K
SMP-> splits=351522 aborts=52237 data=91/1024 elap=3:00
terminating SMP processes.
White(1): c4
time used: 3:00
Black(1): quit
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Re: Still looking for the engine that can analyze this posit
Refusing to analyze the position is a totally legitimate option.bob wrote:Crafty won't crash. But it will produce the correct error messages:Dann Corbit wrote:[d]qqqqkqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQKQQQ w - -
What do you mean it's not a real chess position? I want to see it analyzed.
So far, every engine has crashed instantly except Rybka of all the engines that I tried, but Rybka refused to utter a single syllable after 15 mintues of thought. I think the slimy fish knows the answer, but he's not telling just to spite me.
illegal position, too many white queens
illegal position, too many white pieces
illegal position, too many black queens
illegal position, too many black pieces
bad string = "qqqqkqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/qqqqqqqq/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQKQQQ"
Illegal position, using normal initial chess position
Which is what a reasonable program ought to produce.
What is not legitimate is simply overwriting memory and then doing a core dump.
However, I have deep appreciation for programs that try to process fantasy positions that cannot happen in real life simply because they are fun.
It's all a matter of taste.