position from Kramnik Carlsen at Bilbao

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PawnStormZ
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:43 am

position from Kramnik Carlsen at Bilbao

Post by PawnStormZ »

[D]4k3/1r2b3/1pr2pR1/2p2P1p/P1N5/1P3K1P/8/6R1 w - -

    In this position all the engines I tried give 23. Rh6 with a big winning score.
 
    Once they are shown Kramnik's move 23. Ne5 they all like it and give it a bigger score; almost immediately! Then if you step back a move they still like it.
 
    I wonder why they can see it better almost instantly after making the move, but when looking at it before, usually as the 2nd choice, the moves that they see after it do not look as good as the moves that they see after playing it.    
   
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M ANSARI
Posts: 3707
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:10 pm

Re: position from Kramnik Carlsen at Bilbao

Post by M ANSARI »

This is not unusual at all. Try the same position with MPV to say 3 variations and you will probably see that they will choose the stronger move quicker that way.
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Uri Blass
Posts: 10299
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: position from Kramnik Carlsen at Bilbao

Post by Uri Blass »

I cannot reproduce your results

stockfish suggests Rg8+ with a winning score

New game
[D]4k3/1r2b3/1pr2pR1/2p2P1p/P1N5/1P3K1P/8/6R1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Stockfish 1.9 JA:

1.Rg6-g7
+- (1.97) Depth: 1 00:00:00
1.Rg6-g7 Rb7-d7
+- (1.53) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1.Rg6-g7 Rb7-d7 2.Rg1-e1
+- (1.45) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1.Rg6-g7 Rb7-d7 2.Rg1-e1 Rd7-d3+ 3.Kf3-f4
+- (1.45) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.Rg6-g7 Rb7-d7 2.Rg1-e1 Ke8-f8 3.Rg7-h7
± (1.33) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.Rg1-e1 Rb7-a7 2.Rg6-g7 Ra7-d7 3.Kf3-e4 Rd7-d4+ 4.Ke4-f3 Rd4-d3+ 5.Kf3-f4 Rd3-d4+ 6.Kf4-e3
+- (1.45) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.Rg1-e1 Rb7-a7 2.Rg6-g7 Ra7-d7 3.Re1-e3
+- (1.53) Depth: 6 00:00:00 8kN
1.Rg1-e1 Rb7-a7 2.Rg6-g7 Ra7-d7 3.Nc4-b2
+- (1.61) Depth: 6 00:00:00 9kN
1.Rg1-e1 h5-h4 2.Rg6-g8+ Ke8-f7 3.Rg8-h8 Rb7-d7 4.Rh8-h7+ Kf7-e8 5.Rh7xh4 Rd7-d3+
+- (1.69) Depth: 6 00:00:00 11kN
1.Rg1-e1 h5-h4 2.Rg6-g8+ Ke8-f7 3.Re1-g1 Be7-f8 4.Rg8-h8 Rb7-e7 5.Rh8-h7+ Kf7-e8 6.Rh7xh4
+- (1.65) Depth: 7 00:00:01 16kN
1.Rg1-e1 h5-h4 2.Nc4-e5 Rc6-c8 3.Ne5-g4
+- (1.81) Depth: 8 00:00:01 34kN
1.Rg1-e1 h5-h4 2.Nc4-e5 Rc6-c8 3.Ne5-g4
+- (1.97) Depth: 8 00:00:01 34kN
1.Rg1-e1 Ke8-f8 2.Rg6-h6 Kf8-e8 3.Rh6-h8+ Ke8-f7 4.Rh8xh5 Be7-f8 5.Rh5-h7+ Bf8-g7
+- (2.10) Depth: 8 00:00:01 40kN
1.Rg1-e1 Ke8-f8 2.Rg6-h6 Rc6-c7 3.Rh6-h8+ Kf8-f7 4.Rh8xh5 Rc7-d7 5.Rh5-h7+ Kf7-g8
+- (1.61) Depth: 9 00:00:01 66kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-e7 3.Rg1-g8 Re7-f7 4.h3-h4 Ke8-e7 5.Kf3-e4 Ke7-e8 6.Ke4-d5
+- (2.58) Depth: 9 00:00:01 96kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Rg1-g8 Ke8-e7 4.Kf3-e4 Rc6-c8 5.Nc4xb6 Rc8-e8 6.Ke4-d5 Re8-d8+ 7.Kd5xc5 Ke7-e8+ 8.Kc5-b5
+- (2.38) Depth: 9 00:00:01 103kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Rg1-g8 Ke8-e7 4.Kf3-e4 Rc6-c8 5.Nc4xb6 Rc8-d8 6.Rh8xh5 Ke7-d6 7.Nb6-c4+ Kd6-c6 8.h3-h4 Rf7-e7+ 9.Ke4-f3 Rd8-d3+ 10.Kf3-f4 Rd3-d4+ 11.Kf4-f3
+- (2.22) Depth: 10 00:00:01 143kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Rg1-g8 Ke8-e7 4.Kf3-e4 Rc6-c8 5.Nc4xb6 Rc8-d8 6.Rh8xh5 Ke7-d6 7.Nb6-c4+ Kd6-c6 8.h3-h4 Rf7-e7+ 9.Ke4-f3 Rd8-b8 10.Kf3-f2 Re7-g7 11.Rg8xg7 Bf8xg7
+- (2.30) Depth: 11 00:00:01 196kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Rg1-g8 Ke8-e7 4.Kf3-e4 Rc6-c8 5.Nc4xb6 Rc8-d8 6.Rh8xh5 Ke7-d6 7.Nb6-c4+ Kd6-c6 8.h3-h4 Rf7-e7+ 9.Ke4-f3 Rd8-b8 10.Kf3-f2 Re7-g7 11.Rg8xg7 Bf8xg7
+- (2.30) Depth: 12 00:00:01 232kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Rg1-g8 Ke8-e7 4.Kf3-e4 Rc6-c8 5.Nc4xb6 Rc8-d8 6.Rh8xh5 Ke7-d6 7.Nb6-c4+ Kd6-c6 8.h3-h4 Rf7-e7+ 9.Ke4-f3 Rd8-b8 10.Kf3-f2 Re7-g7 11.Rg8xg7 Bf8xg7
+- (2.30) Depth: 13 00:00:01 288kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Rg1-e1+ Ke8-d8 4.Rh8xh5 Kd8-c7 5.Rh5-h8 Rf7-e7 6.Re1xe7+ Bf8xe7 7.Rh8-g8
+- (2.38) Depth: 14 00:00:02 537kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Rg1-e1+ Ke8-d8 4.Rh8xh5 Kd8-c7 5.Rh5-h8 Rf7-e7 6.Re1xe7+ Bf8xe7 7.Rh8-g8
+- (2.46) Depth: 14 00:00:02 571kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Rg1-e1+ Ke8-d7 4.Re1-d1+ Kd7-c7 5.Rh8xh5 Rf7-g7 6.Rh5-h8 Bf8-d6 7.h3-h4 Bd6-h2 8.h4-h5 Kc7-b7 9.h5-h6 Rg7-g3+ 10.Kf3-e4 Rg3xb3 11.Rd1-d7+ Rc6-c7
+- (2.46) Depth: 14 00:00:02 640kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Rg1-e1+ Ke8-d7 4.Re1-d1+ Kd7-c7 5.Rh8xh5 Rf7-g7 6.Rh5-h8 Bf8-d6 7.h3-h4 Bd6-h2 8.h4-h5 Kc7-b7 9.h5-h6 Rg7-g3+ 10.Kf3-e4 Rg3xb3 11.Rh8-f8
+- (2.62) Depth: 15 00:00:03 927kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Rg1-e1+ Ke8-d7 4.Re1-d1+ Kd7-c7 5.Rh8xh5 Rf7-g7 6.Rh5-h8 Bf8-d6 7.h3-h4 Bd6-h2 8.h4-h5 Kc7-b7 9.Rd1-d2 Bh2-c7 10.h5-h6 Rg7-g3+ 11.Kf3-e4 Rg3xb3 12.Rh8-g8
+- (2.62) Depth: 15 00:00:04 976kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Kf3-e4 Ke8-d8 4.Rg1-g8 Kd8-e7 5.Rh8xh5 Rc6-c8 6.Nc4xb6 Rc8-d8 7.Rh5-h8 Ke7-d6 8.Nb6-c4+ Kd6-c6 9.h3-h4 Rd8-d4+ 10.Ke4-f3 Bf8-g7 11.Rh8-h7
+- (2.70) Depth: 16 00:00:05 1561kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Kf3-e4 Ke8-d8 4.Rg1-g8 Kd8-e7 5.Rh8xh5 Rc6-c8 6.Nc4xb6 Rc8-d8 7.Rh5-h8 Ke7-d6 8.Nb6-c4+ Kd6-c6 9.h3-h4 Rd8-d4+ 10.Ke4-e3 Rf7-e7+ 11.Ke3-f3 Bf8-g7 12.Rh8-h7
+- (2.86) Depth: 17 00:00:06 1865kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Kf3-e4 Ke8-d8 4.Rg1-g8 Kd8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.a4-a5 Rc7-a7 8.Nb6-c4 Rf7-d7+ 9.Kd5-c6 Rd7-c7+ 10.Kc6-b5 Rc7-b7+ 11.Nc4-b6
+- (3.03) Depth: 17 00:00:07 2416kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Kf3-e4 Ke8-d8 4.Rg1-g8 Kd8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.a4-a5 Rc7-a7 8.Nb6-c4 Rf7-d7+ 9.Kd5-c6 Rd7-c7+ 10.Kc6-b5 Rc7-b7+ 11.Nc4-b6
+- (3.35) Depth: 17 00:00:07 3092kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Kf3-e4 Ke8-d8 4.Rg1-g8 Kd8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.a4-a5 Rc7-a7 8.Nb6-c4 Ra7-d7+ 9.Kd5-c6 Rd7-c7+ 10.Kc6-b5 Rc7-b7+ 11.Kb5-a4 Rb7-b4+ 12.Ka4-a3 Ke8-e7 13.Rh8xh5 Ke7-d7 14.a5-a6 Kd7-c6 15.Rh5-h4 Rb4-b8
+- (3.23) Depth: 17 00:00:07 3249kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Kf3-e4 Ke8-d8 4.Rg1-g8 Kd8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.a4-a5 Rc7-a7 8.Nb6-c4 Ra7-a6 9.Kd5-e4 Ra6-c6 10.Rh8xh5 Rf7-e7+ 11.Ke4-f3 Ke8-f7 12.Rg8-g6 Bf8-g7 13.Rh5-h4 Rc6-a6 14.Rh4-e4 Re7-b7 15.Re4-e3
+- (3.47) Depth: 18 00:00:08 4516kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 h5-h4 3.Rg1-g8 Rb7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.Rh8xh4 Rc7-a7 8.Kd5-c4 Rf7-h7 9.Rh4xh7 Ra7xh7 10.a4-a5 Rh7xh3 11.a5-a6 Rh3-h4+ 12.Kc4-d5 Rh4-h7 13.Nb6-c4 Rh7-d7+ 14.Kd5-c6
+- (3.55) Depth: 19 00:00:10 6682kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 h5-h4 3.Rg1-g8 Rb7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.Rh8xh4 Rc7-a7 8.Kd5-c4 Rf7-h7 9.Rh4xh7 Ra7xh7 10.a4-a5 Rh7xh3 11.a5-a6 Rh3-h4+ 12.Kc4-d5 Rh4-h7 13.Nb6-c4 Rh7-d7+ 14.Kd5-c6
+- (3.75) Depth: 20 00:00:11 7608kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 h5-h4 3.Rg1-g8 Rb7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.Rh8xh4 Rf7-e7 8.Kd5-c4 Re7-e1 9.Nb6-d5 Rc7-f7 10.a4-a5 Re1-a1 11.Rh4-e4+ Ke8-d7 12.Re4-e6 Ra1xa5 13.Nd5xf6+ Kd7-c7 14.Nf6-d5+ Kc7-d8
+- (3.59) Depth: 20 00:00:11 7805kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 h5-h4 3.Rg1-g8 Rb7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.Rh8xh4 Rf7-e7 8.Kd5-c4 Re7-e1 9.Nb6-d5 Rc7-f7 10.a4-a5 Re1-a1 11.Rh4-e4+ Ke8-d7 12.Re4-e6 Ra1xa5 13.Nd5xf6+ Kd7-c7 14.h3-h4
+- (3.67) Depth: 21 00:00:12 8293kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 h5-h4 3.Rg1-g8 Rb7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.Rh8xh4 Rc7-a7 8.Kd5-c4 Rf7-h7 9.Rh4xh7 Ra7xh7 10.a4-a5 Rh7xh3 11.a5-a6 Rh3-h4+ 12.Kc4-d5 Rh4-h7 13.Nb6-c4 Rh7-d7+ 14.Kd5-c6
+- (3.75) Depth: 21 00:00:12 8688kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 h5-h4 3.Rg1-g8 Rb7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.Rh8xh4 Rf7-e7 8.Kd5-c4 Re7-e1 9.Nb6-d5 Rc7-f7 10.a4-a5 Re1-a1 11.Rh4-e4+ Ke8-d7 12.Re4-e6 Ra1xa5 13.Nd5xf6+ Kd7-c7 14.h3-h4 Ra5-a1 15.h4-h5 Ra1-c1+ 16.Kc4-d5 Rc1-d1+
+- (3.79) Depth: 21 00:00:12 9923kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-e7 3.Rg1-g8 Re7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c8 6.Nc4xb6 Rc8-d8+ 7.Kd5xc5 Ke7-e8+ 8.Kc5-c4 Rd8-d1 9.Kc4-c3 Rd1-f1 10.Nb6-c4 Ke8-e7 11.Rh8xh5 Rf1-f3+ 12.Kc3-c2 Ke7-d7 13.a4-a5 Rf3-f2+ 14.Kc2-c3 Kd7-c6
+- (3.55) Depth: 22 00:00:18 13660kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-e7 3.Rg1-g8 Re7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c8 6.Nc4xb6 Rc8-d8+ 7.Kd5xc5 Ke7-e8+ 8.Kc5-c4 Rd8-d1 9.Kc4-c3 Rd1-h1 10.Rh8xh5 Rh1-f1 11.Nb6-d5 Rf1-c1+ 12.Kc3-d2 Rc1-c5 13.Nd5-b6 Rc5-e5 14.b3-b4 Rf7-e7 15.b4-b5 Re5-e2+ 16.Kd2-c3 Re2-e3+
+- (3.67) Depth: 22 00:00:21 14189kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-e7 3.Rg1-g8 Re7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.a4-a5 Rc7-a7 8.Nb6-c4 Ra7-a6 9.Kd5-e4 Ra6-c6 10.Rh8xh5 Rf7-e7+ 11.Ke4-f3 Ke8-f7 12.Rg8-g6 Bf8-g7 13.Rh5-h4 Rc6-a6 14.Rh4-e4 Re7-b7 15.Re4-e3 Rb7-b8 16.Re3-d3 Bg7-f8
+- (3.91) Depth: 23 00:00:26 19780kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-e7 3.Rg1-g8 Re7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c8 6.Nc4xb6 Rc8-e8 7.Kd5xc5 Ke7-d8+ 8.Kc5-d4 Kd8-c7 9.Nb6-d5+ Kc7-b7 10.b3-b4 Re8-d8 11.Kd4-c4 Rd8-c8+ 12.Kc4-b5 Rc8-d8 13.Nd5-b6 Rd8-e8 14.a4-a5 Kb7-c7 15.h3-h4 Re8-e5+ 16.Kb5-c4 Re5-e4+
+- (4.00) Depth: 23 00:00:32 25085kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-e7 3.Rg1-g8 Re7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.a4-a5 Rc7-a7 8.Nb6-c4 Ra7-a6 9.Kd5-e4 Rf7-e7+ 10.Ke4-f3 Re7-f7 11.Rh8xh5 Ke8-d7 12.Rh5-h8 Bf8-d6 13.Rg8-d8+ Kd7-c7 14.h3-h4 Rf7-g7 15.Rd8-g8 Rg7-e7 16.h4-h5 Bd6-e5
+- (4.04) Depth: 24 00:00:50 40658kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-e7 3.Rg1-g8 Re7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.a4-a5 Rc7-a7 8.Nb6-c4 Ra7-a6 9.Kd5-e4 Rf7-e7+ 10.Ke4-f3 Re7-f7 11.Rh8xh5 Ke8-d7 12.Rh5-h8 Bf8-d6 13.Rg8-d8+ Kd7-c7 14.h3-h4 Rf7-g7 15.Rd8-g8 Rg7-e7 16.h4-h5 Bd6-e5
+- (4.24) Depth: 25 00:01:13 60452kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-e7 3.Rg1-g8 Re7-f7 4.Kf3-e4 Ke8-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.a4-a5 Rc7-a7 8.Nb6-c4 Ra7-a6 9.Kd5-e4 Rf7-e7+ 10.Ke4-f3 Re7-f7 11.Rh8xh5 Ke8-d7 12.Rh5-h8 Kd7-e7 13.h3-h4 Ra6-a8 14.h4-h5 Ra8-b8 15.Nc4-b6 Ke7-d6 16.h5-h6 Kd6-c6
+- (4.32) Depth: 25 00:01:17 64745kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Kf3-e4 Rf7-e7+ 4.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 5.Nc4-d6+ Ke8-d7 6.Rh8xf8 Re7-e5+ 7.Kd5-c4 Kd7xd6 8.Rf8xf6+ Kd6-d7 9.Rg1-g5 Kd7-d8 10.Rf6xb6 Rc7-f7 11.Rb6-d6+ Kd8-c7 12.Rd6-d5 Re5-e4+ 13.Kc4xc5 Re4-e3 14.Rg5xh5 Re3xb3 15.h3-h4 Rb3-b1 16.Rh5-g5 Rb1-c1+
+- (4.24) Depth: 26 00:01:48 90489kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Kf3-e4 Rf7-e7+ 4.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 5.Nc4-d6+ Ke8-d7 6.Rh8xf8
+- (4.48) Depth: 27 00:02:26 124844kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Kf3-e4 Ke8-d7 4.Rg1-g8 Kd7-e7 5.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 6.Nc4xb6 Ke7-e8 7.a4-a5 Rc7-a7 8.Nb6-c4 Ra7-a6 9.Kd5-e4 Rf7-e7+ 10.Ke4-f3 Re7-f7 11.Rh8xh5 Ke8-d7 12.Rh5-h8 Kd7-e7 13.h3-h4 Ra6-a8 14.h4-h5 Ra8-b8 15.Nc4-b6 Ke7-d6 16.h5-h6 Kd6-c7
+- (4.64) Depth: 27 00:03:37 186374kN
1.Rg6-g8+ Be7-f8 2.Rg8-h8 Rb7-f7 3.Kf3-e4 Rf7-e7+ 4.Ke4-d5 Rc6-c7 5.Nc4-d6+ Ke8-d7 6.Rh8xf8 Re7-e5+ 7.Kd5-c4 Kd7xd6 8.Rf8xf6+ Kd6-d7 9.Rg1-g5 Re5-e4+ 10.Kc4-d5 Re4-d4+ 11.Kd5-e5 Kd7-c8 12.Rf6xb6 Rd4-d8 13.Rg5xh5 c5-c4 14.b3xc4 Rc7-c5+ 15.Ke5-e6 Kc8-c7 16.Rb6-a6 Kc7-b7
+- (4.80) Depth: 28 00:05:27 285753kN

(, 06.11.2010)
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michiguel
Posts: 6401
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:30 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Re: position from Kramnik Carlsen at Bilbao

Post by michiguel »

PawnStormZ wrote:[D]4k3/1r2b3/1pr2pR1/2p2P1p/P1N5/1P3K1P/8/6R1 w - -

    In this position all the engines I tried give 23. Rh6 with a big winning score.
 
    Once they are shown Kramnik's move 23. Ne5 they all like it and give it a bigger score; almost immediately! Then if you step back a move they still like it.
 
    I wonder why they can see it better almost instantly after making the move, but when looking at it before, usually as the 2nd choice, the moves that they see after it do not look as good as the moves that they see after playing it.    
   
Engines are not that quick to pick up that positions after

Ne5 Rc8/ Rg8+ Bf8/ Ng6 Rf7/ Rd1 Rb8/ Rd6 black is completely lost and could resign.

Miguel
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zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
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Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: position from Kramnik Carlsen at Bilbao

Post by zullil »

Indeed. Stockfish-1.9.1 sees no need for Ne5:

Code: Select all

Searching: 4k3/1r2b3/1pr2pR1/2p2P1p/P1N5/1P3K1P/8/6R1 w - -
infinite: 1 ponder: 0 time: 0 increment: 0 moves to go: 0
 2     +1.54   00:00      267 Rg7 Rd7 
 3     +1.45   00:00      659 Rg7 Rd7 Re1 
 4     +1.45   00:00     1395 Rg7 Rd7 Re1 Rd3+ Kf4 
 5     +1.33   00:00     3421 Rg7 Rd7 Re1 Kf8 Rh7 
 5     +1.45   00:00     5518 Re1 Ra7 Rg7 Rd7 Ke4 Rd4+ Kf3 Rd3+ Kf4 Rd4+ Ke3 
 6  >  +1.54   00:00     8371 Re1 Ra7 Rg7 Rd7 Re3 
 6  >  +1.62   00:00     8628 Re1 Ra7 Rg7 Rd7 Nb2 
 6     +1.70   00:00    10690 Re1 h4 Rg8+ Kf7 Rh8 Rd7 Rh7+ Ke8 Rxh4 Rd3+ 
 7     +1.66   00:00    15707 Re1 h4 Rg8+ Kf7 Reg1 Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rh7+ Ke8 Rxh4 
 8  >  +1.82   00:00    36756 Re1 h4 Ne5 Rc8 Ng4 
 8  >  +1.98   00:00    40774 Re1 h4 Ne5 Rc8 Ng4 
 8     +2.26   00:00    46086 Re1 Kf8 Rh6 Kg7 Rxh5 Rd7 Rg1+ Kf8 Rh8+ Kf7 Rh7+ 
                              Ke8 
 9  <  +1.62   00&#58;00    79595 Re1 Kf8 Rh6 Rcc7 a5 bxa5 Nxa5 Rb4 
 9     +1.78   00&#58;00    88278 Ne5 Rc8 Rg8+ Bf8 Ng6 Rf7 Re1+ Kd7 Re6 Bh6 Rxc8 
                              Kxc8 Rxb6 
 9     +2.38   00&#58;00   127713 Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Kf4 Ke7 Ke4 Rc8 Nxb6 
                              Re8 Kd5 Rd8+ Kxc5 Ke8+ Kb5 
10     +2.30   00&#58;00   153841 Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Kf4 Ke7 Ke4 Rc8 Nxb6 
                              Rd8 Rxh5 Kd6 a5 Re7+ Kf3 Kc6 Nc4 Rd3+ Kf4 
11  >  +2.46   00&#58;00   218666 Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Kf4 Ke7 Ke4 Rc8 Nxb6 
                              Rd8 a5 Kd6 Kd3 Kc6+ Kc2 
11     +2.46   00&#58;00   223327 Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Kf4 Ke7 Ke4 Rc8 Nxb6 
                              Rd8 a5 Kd6 Rxh5 Re7+ Kd3 Kc6+ Kc2 Re3 
12     +2.42   00&#58;00   339647 Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Rgg8 Ke7 Ke4 Rc8 Nxb6 Rd8 a5 
                              Rd4+ Ke3 Ke8 Nc4 h4 a6 Re7+ Kf3 Rd3+ Kf4 Rd4+ Kf3 
13  >  +2.55   00&#58;00   437233 Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Rgg8 Ke7 Ke4 Rc8 Nxb6 Rd8 a5 
                              Rd4+ Ke3 Ke8 Nc4 h4 a6 Re7+ Kf3 Rd3+ Kg2 
13     +2.59   00&#58;00   471915 Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Rgg8 Ke7 Ke4 Rc8 Nxb6 Re8 Kd5 
                              Rd8+ Kc4 Kd6 Kb5 Ke7 Rxh5 Rd3 Kc4 
14     +2.63   00&#58;00   582048 Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Rgg8 Ke7 Ke4 Rc8 Nxb6 Rb8 a5 Kd6 
                              Kd3 Kc6 Kc2 Rd8 Nc4 Re8 Kc3 Rd8 a6 
15     +2.67   00&#58;00   654695 Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Rgg8 Ke7 Ke4 Rc8 Nxb6 Rb8 a5 Kd6 
                              Kd3 Kc6 Kc2 Re8 Nc4 Kd5 Kc3 Kc6 Rxh5 
16  <  +2.59   00&#58;00   799170 Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Rgg8 Ke7 Ke4 Rc8 Nxb6 Rd8 a5 
                              Rd4+ Ke3 Ke8 Nc4 Rd8 a6 Kd7 Ke4 Kc6 Rxh5 Ra7 
16  >  +2.75   00&#58;01    1199K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Rgg8 Ke7 Rxh5 Kd8 Rhh8 Ke8 Ke4 
                              Ke7 Kd5 
16  >  +2.83   00&#58;01    1314K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Rgg8 Ke7 Rxh5 Kd8 Rhh8 Ke8 Ke4 
                              Ke7 Kd5 
16  >  +2.99   00&#58;01    1921K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 Kd5 Bd6 Rd8+ Kxd8 Kxc6 
                              Bh2 Rg8+ Ke7 Nxb6 
16     +2.91   00&#58;01    2010K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd8 Kd5 Rcc7 Rgg8 Ke7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Rfe7 Rhh8 Re5+ Kc4 Rf7 Nd5 Re4+ Kc3 Re5 
17  >  +3.19   00&#58;01    3796K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd8 Kd5 Rcc7 Rgg8 Ke7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Rfe7 Rhh8 Re5+ Kc4 Rf7 Nd5 Re4+ Kb5 Rb7+ 
                              Kc6 
17     +2.95   00&#58;01    4152K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd8 Kd5 Rcc7 Rgg8 Ke7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Ra7 Kc6 Rfc7+ Kb5 Rh7 Rxh7 Rxh7 Nd5 Rxh3 
                              Nxf6+ Kf7 Kc4 Kxf6 Rxf8+ Ke5 
18  >  +3.11   00&#58;01    4416K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd8 Kd5 Rcc7 Rgg8 Ke7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Ra7 Kc6 Rfc7+ Kb5 Rh7 Rxh7 Rxh7 Kc6 Rxh3 
                              Nd7 
18     +3.15   00&#58;01    4559K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd8 Kd5 Rcc7 Rgg8 Ke7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Ra7 Kc6 Rac7+ Kb5 Rce7 Nd5 Re1 a5 Rb1 
                              Kc4 Rc1+ Kb5 Rb7+ Ka4 
19  >  +3.39   00&#58;02    7390K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd8 Kd5 Rcc7 Rgg8 Ke7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Ra7 Kc6 Rac7+ Kb5 Rce7 Nd5 Re1 a5 Rb1 
                              Kc6 Rxb3 Nc7+ Ke7 a6 c4 a7 
19     +3.47   00&#58;02    8263K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd8 Rgg8 Ke7 Kd5 Rc7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Ra7 Kc6 Rac7+ Kb5 Rce7 Nd5 Re1 a5 Rb1 
                              Kc6 Rxb3 Nc7+ Ke7 a6 Ra3 Rh4 Rg7 Re4+ Kf7 Rxf8+ 
                              Kxf8 Ne6+ Kf7 Nxg7 Kxg7 
20     +3.60   00&#58;02   10756K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 h4 Rgg8 Rf7 Ke4 Ke7 Kd5 Rc8 Nxb6 
                              Rd8+ Kxc5 Ke8+ Kc4 Rd1 b4 Rc1+ Kb5 Rf1 Nd5 Rxf5 
                              Kc4 Re5 Rxh4 f5 b5 
21     +3.56   00&#58;03   15237K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Ke4 Ke7 Kd5 Rc8 Nxb6 
                              Rd8+ Kxc5 Ke8+ Kc4 Rd1 b4 Rh1 Rxh5 Rc7+ Kb5 Rb1 
                              Rg4 Re7 a5 Re5+ Ka4 Ra1+ Kb3 Rb1+ Kc3 Rbe1 a6 
                              R5e3+ Kd4 Bxb4 a7 Bc3+ Kd5 Rd1+ Kc6 
22  >  +3.68   00&#58;03   15961K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Ke4 Ke7 Kd5 Rc8 Nxb6 
                              Rd8+ Kxc5 Ke8+ Kc4 Rd1 b4 Rh1 Rxh5 Rc7+ Kb5 Rb1 
                              Rg4 Re7 a5 Re5+ Kc6 Rxb4 Rxb4 Bxb4 Rh8+ Kf7 a6 
22  >  +3.80   00&#58;03   17438K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Ke4 Ke7 Kd5 Rc7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Rce7 Kc6 Rb7 Kb5 c4 bxc4 Rfc7 a5 Rc5+ 
                              Kb4 Rcc7+ Ka4 Kf7 Rg6 
22     +3.84   00&#58;03   18866K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Ke4 Ke7 Kd5 Rc7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Rb7 a5 Ra7 Kc6 Rac7+ Kb5 Rce7 a6 Re3 Kc4 
                              Re4+ Kd5 Re1 Kc6 Ra1 Nc4 Ke7 Kb7 Kd8+ Kb6 
23     +4.00   00&#58;04   23131K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Ke4 Ke7 Kd5 Rc7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Rce7 Kc6 Rc7+ Kb5 c4 Nxc4 Rb7+ Nb6 Rh7 
                              Rxh7 Rxh7 b4 Rh5 Nd5 Rxf5 Kc4 Kf7 Rg1 Bd6 a5 
24  >  +4.32   00&#58;06   44937K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Ke4 Ke7 Kd5 Rc7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 Rce7 Kc6 Rc7+ Kb5 c4 Nxc4 Rb7+ Nb6 Rbe7 
                              Nd5 Rd7 Kc4 
24     +4.32   00&#58;07   48292K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Ke4 Ke7 Kd5 Rc7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 c4 Nxc4 Rfd7+ Ke4 Kf7 Rg3 Bg7 Rd3 Re7+ 
                              Kd4 Re1 a5 Rc1 Rg3 Kg8 Rg6 Ra1 Ke4 Kf7 Rh4 Re7+ 
                              Kd5 
25     +4.61   00&#58;12   98724K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Re7 Rgg8 Rf7 Ke4 Ke7 Kd5 Rc7 Nxb6 
                              Ke8 Rxh5 c4 Nxc4 Rfd7+ Ke4 Kf7 Rg3 Bg7 Rd3 Re7+ 
                              Kd4 Re1 a5 Rb1 Kc3 Kg8 Rg3 Kf7 Rg4 Rf1 Rg2 Kg8 
                              Kb2 Rd7 b4 Rf4 Rg4 Rf2+ Kc3 Rf3+ Kc2 
26     +4.44   00&#58;25  223097K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 Kd5 Rd6+ Nxd6 Bxd6 Rgg8 
                              Be5 Rc8 Bc7 Rcf8 Re7 Rxf6 Be5 Rxb6 Bxh8 Rb7+ Ke8 
                              Rb8+ Kf7 Rxh8 Re3 a5 Kg7 Rxh5 Rxb3 Kxc5 Ra3 Kb5 
                              Rb3+ Kc4 Ra3 Kb4 Ra1 
27  >  +4.77   00&#58;29  257196K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 Kd5 Rd6+ Nxd6 Bxd6 Rgg8 
                              Be5 Rc8 Bc7 Rcf8 Re7 Rxf6 Be5 Rxb6 Bxh8 Rb7+ Ke8 
                              Rb8+ Kf7 Rxh8 Re3 a5 Kg7 Rb8 Rf3 a6 Rxf5+ Kc6 
27     +4.69   00&#58;30  260296K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 Kd5 Rd6+ Nxd6 Bxd6 Rgg8 
                              Be5 Rc8 Bc7 Rcf8 Re7 Rxf6 Be5 Rxb6 Bxh8 Rb7+ Ke8 
                              Rb8+ Kf7 Rxh8 Re1 Rxh5 Rb1 a5 Rxb3 a6 Kf6 Kxc5 
                              Rc3+ Kb4 Rc1 a7 Ra1 Rh7 Kxf5 Kb5 Kf6 Kb6 Ke5 Kb7 
28     +4.77   00&#58;36  319843K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Re7+ Kd5 Rcc7 Nd6+ Kd7 Rxf8 
                              Re5+ Kc4 Kxd6 Rxf6+ Kd7 Rg5 Re4+ Kd5 Rd4+ Ke5 Kc8 
                              Rxb6 Rd8 Rd6 Re8+ Re6 Rf8 f6 c4 b4 c3 Rg1 c2 Rc1 
                              Rd8 Re7 Rdd7 Rxd7 Kxd7 b5 Rc5+ Kd4 Rf5 Rxc2 Rxf6 
                              a5 Rf4+ Kc5 Rf5+ Kb6 Rf3 h4 Kd6 Rd2+ Ke5 
29  >  +4.97   00&#58;52  483029K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Re7+ Kd5 Rcc7 Nd6+ Kd7 Rxf8 
                              Re5+ Kc4 Kxd6 Rxf6+ Kd7 Rg5 Re4+ Kd5 Rd4+ Ke5 Kc8 
                              Rxb6 Rd8 Rxh5 Re8+ Kd5 c4 bxc4 Rd8+ Ke6 Rxc4 f6 
                              Kc7 a5 Re4+ Kf7 
29     +4.89   00&#58;58  544030K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 Kd5 Rd6+ Nxd6 Bxd6 Rgg8 
                              Be5 Rc8 Bc7 Rcf8 Re7 Rxf6 Be5 Rxb6 Bxh8 Rb7+ Ke8 
                              Rb8+ Kf7 Rxh8 Re1 Rxh5 Rb1 a5 Rxb3 a6 Kf6 Kxc5 
                              Ra3 Rh7 Kxf5 a7 Ke5 Kb6 Ra2 Rh8 Rb2+ Kc6 Rc2+ Kb7 
                              Rb2+ Kc7 Rc2+ Kb6 Rb2+ 
30  >  +5.05   01&#58;06  616279K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 Kd5 Rd6+ Nxd6 Bxd6 Rgg8 
                              Be5 Ra8 Re7 Rhc8 Bc7 Rxc7+ Kxc7 Ra7+ Kd8 Rxe7 
                              Kxe7 Kc6 b5 Kxb5 Kd6 a5 Kc7 Kxc5 Kb7 b4 Ka6 Kc4 
                              Kb7 b5 Kc7 Kd5 Kb7 Ke4 Kc7 Kd3 Kb7 Kd4 h4 Kc4 
30     +4.85   01&#58;06  624265K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 Kd5 Rd6+ Nxd6 Bxd6 Rgg8 
                              Bc7 Rf8 Re7 Rxf6 Be5 Rxb6 Bxh8 Rb7+ Ke8 Rb8+ Kf7 
                              Rxh8 Kg7 Rxh5 Rb7 Kc4 Rb4+ Kc3 Rb8 a5 Ra8 f6+ 
                              Kxf6 Rxc5 Rh8 b4 Rxh3+ Kc4 Rh4+ Kb5 Rh8 a6 Rb8+ 
                              Kc4 
31  >  +4.97   01&#58;08  641710K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 Kd5 Rd6+ Nxd6 Bxd6 Rgg8 
                              Bc7 Rf8 Re7 Rxf6 Be5 Rxb6 Bxh8 Rb7+ Ke8 Rb8+ Kf7 
                              Rxh8 Kg7 Rxh5 Rb7 Kc4 Rb4+ Kc3 Rb8 a5 Ra8 f6+ 
                              Kxf6 Rxc5 Rh8 b4 Rxh3+ Kc4 Rh4+ Kb5 Rh8 Kc6 Ke6 
                              a6 Rc8+ Kb7 
31  >  +5.09   01&#58;15  707307K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 Kd5 Rd6+ Nxd6 Bxd6 Rgg8 
                              Bh2 Rd8+ Kc7 Ke6 Rg7 Kxf6 Rg3 Rc8+ Kb7 Rce8 Rxb3 
                              Re7+ Kc6 Re6+ Kd5 Rd8+ Kc4 Re4+ Kc3 Ke6 Bc7 Rd7 
31     +4.97   01&#58;16  716542K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 Kd5 Rd6+ Nxd6 Bxd6 Rgg8 
                              Bc7 Rf8 Re7 Rxf6 Be5 Rxb6 Bxh8 Rb7+ Ke8 Rb8+ Kf7 
                              Rxh8 Kg7 Rxh5 Rb7 Kc4 Rb4+ Kc3 Rb8 a5 Ra8 f6+ 
                              Kxf6 Rxc5 Rh8 b4 Rxh3+ Kc4 Rh4+ Kb5 Rh8 a6 Ra8 
32  >  +5.13   01&#58;35  908020K Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Kd7 
32     +5.25   01&#58;55    1107M Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Re7+ Kd5 Rcc7 Nd6+ Kd7 Rxf8 
                              Re5+ Kc4 Kxd6 Rxf6+ Kd7 Rg5 Re4+ Kd5 Rd4+ Ke5 Kc8 
                              Rxb6 Rd8 Rxh5 c4 bxc4 Rc5+ Ke6 Kc7 Ra6 Kb7 Rd6 
                              Re8+ Kf7 Rec8 Rd7+ Kc6 Rd4 Re5 Rd5 Rc7+ Kg6 Rxd5 
                              cxd5+ Kxd5 f6+ Ke6 a5 
33     +5.54   03&#58;06    1842M Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Re7+ Kd5 Rcc7 Nd6+ Kd7 Rxf8 
                              Re5+ Kc4 Kxd6 Rxf6+ Kd7 Rg5 Re4+ Kd5 Rd4+ Ke5 Kc8 
                              Rxb6 Rd8 Rxh5 c4 bxc4 Rc5+ Ke6 Kc7 Ra6 Kb7 Rd6 
                              Re8+ Kf7 Ra8 Ke7 Rg8 Rd7+ Kc8 Rd4 Ra5 Kf7 Rg1 
                              Rh8+ Kc7 f6 Rxa4 h4 Rf1 Kg6 Ra6 Rh7+ Kc8 
34  >  +5.98   07&#58;56    4933M Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Re7+ Kd5 Rcc7 Nd6+ Kd7 Rxf8 
                              Re5+ Kc4 Kxd6 Rxf6+ Kd7 Rg5 Re4+ Kd5 Rd4+ Ke5 Kc8 
                              Rxb6 Rd8 Rxh5 c4 bxc4 Rc5+ Ke6 Kc7 Ra6 Kb7 Rd6 
34     +5.90   13&#58;29    8453M Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rb8 Rh7 Rbc8 Re1+ Kd8 Rxh5 R8c7 Rh8 
                              Rf7 Re6 Kc7 h4 Bg7 Rc8+ Kxc8 Rxc6+ Kb7 Rxb6+ Ka8 
                              h5 Bh8 h6 Rh7 Na5 Ka7 Rb5 Ka6 Nc6 Rc7 Rb8 Rxc6 
                              Rxh8 Rc7 h7 Ra7 
35     +6.10   17&#58;56   11030M Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Re7+ Kd5 Rcc7 Nd6+ Kd7 Rxf8 
                              Re5+ Kc4 Kxd6 Rxf6+ Kd7 Rg5 Re4+ Kd5 Rd4+ Ke5 Rd2 
                              Rxb6 c4 Rg7+ Kc8 Rg8+ Kd7 bxc4 Rc5+ Kf6 Rxc4 Rg7+ 
                              Kc8 a5 Rcd4 Rc6+ Kb8 a6 Rd8 Rb7+ Ka8 Ke7 Rh8 f6 
                              Re2+ Kd6 Rd8+ Kc5 Rc2+ Kb6 Rb2+ Kc7 Rbd2 f7 Rf8 
                              Rf6 Rd3 h4 Rd4 Kc6 Ra4 Kb5 
36     +6.42   21&#58;25   13235M Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Re7+ Kd5 Rcc7 Nd6+ Kd7 Rxf8 
                              Re5+ Kc4 Kxd6 Rxf6+ Kd7 Rg5 Re4+ Kd5 Rd4+ Ke5 Kc8 
                              Rxb6 Rd8 Rxh5 c4 bxc4 Rc5+ Ke6 Rf8 Rb4 Rd8 h4 
                              Rc6+ Ke5 Rc5+ Kf6 Rf8+ Ke6 Re8+ Kf7 Rd8 Rg5 Rc7+ 
                              Ke6 Re8+ Kf6 Rf8+ Ke5 Re7+ Kf4 Re1 h5 Rf1+ Ke5 
                              Re1+ Kd6 Rd1+ Ke7 Rdd8 a5 Rfe8+ Kf6 Rf8+ Ke5 
                              Rfe8+ Kf4 Rd1 Rg7 
37     +6.46   33&#58;42   21299M Rg8+ Bf8 Rh8 Rf7 Ke4 Re7+ Kd5 Rcc7 Nd6+ Kd7 Rxf8 
                              Re5+ Kc4 Kxd6 Rxf6+ Kd7 Rg5 Re4+ Kd5 Rd4+ Ke5 Kc8 
                              Rxb6 Rd8 Rxh5 c4 bxc4 Rc5+ Ke6 Rf8 Rb4 Rd8 h4 
                              Rc6+ Ke5 Rc5+ Kf6 Rf8+ Ke6 Rc7 Rg5 Re8+ Kf6 Rh7 
                              c5 Rc7 Rb5 Rh7 Ra5 Kb8 h5 Rhh8 Rg7 Rxh5 Kg6 Reh8 
                              Rb5+ Kc8 f6 R5h6+ Kg5 Rh1 

Nodes&#58; 21725656629
Nodes/second&#58; 10532298
Best move&#58; Rg8+
Ponder move&#58; Bf8
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kgburcham
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:19 pm

Zappa best moves

Post by kgburcham »

[D] 4k3/1r2b3/1pr2pR1/2p2P1p/P1N5/1P3K1P/8/6R1 w - -

Zappa Mexico II
small hardware
4 threads
9 best moves with eval

18 66:54 +5.18 1.Ne5 Rc8 (12.133.297.172) 3022
18 68:04 +3.54 1.Rh6 Bf8 (12.337.182.722) 3020
18 69:04 +3.03 1.Rd1 Ra7 (12.519.771.834) 3020
18 70:39 +2.87 1.Rg7 Rd7 (12.800.941.482) 3019
18 73:47 +2.80 1.a5 bxa5 (13.356.442.146) 3016
18 74:55 +2.10 1.Ke4 Rd7 (13.576.235.205) 3019
17 30:09 +3.34 1.Rg8+ Bf8 (5.517.589.465) 3048
17 24:51 +2.97 1.h4 Bf8 (4.556.727.951) 3055
17 30:56 +2.93 1.Re1 Kf8 (5.664.320.077) 3051
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User avatar
Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4567
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
Full name:   

Re: position from Kramnik Carlsen at Bilbao

Post by Eelco de Groot »

Rainbow Serpent is different here from Stockfish 1.9, it would choose Rh6, in very fast Blitz it might play Ne5 unfortunately doesn't look deep enough into that variation to keep it after a few seconds. There may be some null move pruning effect that cuts it short, for Rainbow Serpent it seems all variations are looked at very briefly only but the PV suffers from search explosions, so a disproportionate amount of time is spent in the PV. In general possibly the nullwindow searches are not looking deep enough at Ne5 especially if it has not been chosen as PV move.


[D]4k3/1r2b3/1pr2pR1/2p2P1p/P1N5/1P3K1P/8/6R1 w - -

Engine: Rainbow Serpent 1.8(s)dc Build 100 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB)
by Tord Romstad, Marco Costalba, Joona Kiiski

1.00 0:00 +2.14 1.Rg7 (160) 0

2.00 0:00 +1.69 1.Rg7 Rd7 (962) 2

3.00 0:00 +1.73 1.Rg7 Rd7 2.Ke4 (3.835) 11

4.00 0:00 +1.67 1.Rg7 Rd7 2.R7g3 (11.966) 34

4.00 0:00 +1.79 1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.R8g5 (13.553) 39

4.00 0:00 +2.27 1.Ne5 Rd6 2.Ke2 (19.651) 54

5.00 0:00 +2.31 1.Ne5 Rd6 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Kf4 (20.663) 57

6.00 0:00 +1.98-- 1.Ne5 Rc8 (26.468) 73

6.00 0:00 +1.53-- 1.Ne5 Rc8 (32.232) 85

6.00 0:00 +1.71 1.Ne5 Rc8 2.Rg8+ (40.694) 104

7.00 0:00 +2.06 1.Ne5 Rc8 2.Rg8+ (48.205) 118

8.00 0:00 +2.07 1.Ne5 Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Kf7 4.Kf2 (54.067) 133

9.00 0:00 +1.88 1.Ne5 Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Kf7
4.Nxf8 Ke8 (62.979) 149

10.00 0:00 +1.99 1.Ne5 Rc8 2.Rg8+ (109.987) 213

11.00 0:00 +2.10 1.Ne5 Rc8 2.Rg8+ (130.405) 238

12.00 0:00 +2.22 1.Ne5 Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 (160.785) 271

13.00 0:00 +2.12 1.Ne5 Rc8 2.Rg8+ (321.263) 387

14.01 0:01 +2.15 1.Ne5 Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 (681.472) 495

15.01 0:02 +2.24 1.Ne5 Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 (1.332.547) 568

15.15 0:04 +2.39++ 1.Rh6 Bf8 (3.038.882) 611

15.15 0:05 +2.52++ 1.Rh6 Bf8 (3.349.910) 616

15.15 0:05 +2.66 1.Rh6 Bf8 2.Rxh5 Rd7 3.Rh8 Rd3+
4.Ke2 Rd8 5.Rh7 (3.540.059) 619

16.01 0:06 +2.79 1.Rh6 Bf8 2.Rxh5 Rd7 3.Rh8 Rd3+
4.Ke2 Rd8 (4.069.923) 623

17.01 0:10 +2.94 1.Rh6 Bf8 2.Rxh5 Bg7 3.Rh4 Rd7
4.Re4+ Kf7 5.Rg6 Rc8 6.Nxb6 Rd3+
7.Re3 Rxe3+ 8.Kxe3 Rh8 9.Rg3 Bh6+
10.Kf3 Rd8 11.Nc4 Bg5 12.Ke4 (6.443.533) 639

18.01 0:13 +3.03 1.Rh6 Bf8 2.Rxh5 Bg7 3.Rh4 Kf7 4.Re4 Kf8
5.Rd1 (8.969.127) 645

19.01 0:16 +3.31 1.Rh6 Bf8 2.Rxh5 Bg7 3.Rh4 Kf7 4.Re4 (10.743.877) 649

20.01 4:24 +3.54 1.Rh6 Bf8 2.Rxh5 Rcc7 3.Rh8 Rg7
4.Rxg7 Rxg7 5.Nxb6 Rg5 6.Ke4 (173.972.069) 657

21.01 14:07 +3.71 1.Rh6 Bf8 2.Rxh5 Bg7 3.Rh4 Kf8 4.Re4 Bh6
5.Rg6 Bg7 (547.294.598) 645

22.01 47:09 +4.11 1.Rh6 Bf8 2.Rxh5 Bg7 3.Rh4 Kf8 4.Re4 Rb8
5.Re6 (1.798.523.357) 635

23.01 50:16 +4.61 1.Rh6 Bf8 2.Rxh5 Bg7 3.Rh4 Kf8 4.Re4 Rb8
5.Re6 Rc7 6.Rxb6 (1.922.995.200) 637

best move: Rg6-h6 time: 53:06.922 min n/s: 637.904 nodes: 2.032.943.217
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
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zullil
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Stockfish's Top Five Moves

Post by zullil »

Stockfish-1.9.1 (8 threads) MultiPV=5

Code: Select all

info multipv 1 score cp 634 depth 32 time 2600331 nodes 26478057276 nps 10182571 pv g6g8 e7f8 g8h8 b7b8 h8h7 b8c8 g1e1 e8d8 h7h5 c8c7 h5h8 c7f7 e1e6 d8d7 c4b6 d7c7 b6d5 c7b7 f3e4 c5c4 e6c6 b7c6 b3c4 f8c5 h3h4 f7a7 h8c8 c6d6 d5f6 a7a4 f6e8 d6d7 c8c5 d7e8 f5f6 e8f7 e4f5 a4a2 c5c7 f7e8 c4c5 a2f2 f5g6 f2g2 g6h7 g2f2 h7g7 f2g2 g7h6 g2f2 c7e7 

info multipv 2 score cp 553 depth 32 time 2600331 nodes 26478057276 nps 10182571 pv c4e5 c6c8 g6g8 e7f8 e5g6 b7f7 g1d1 c8a8 d1d6 a8b8 g8h8 h5h4 h8g8 b6b5 a4b5 b8b5 d6e6 e8d8 g6f8 b5b3 e6e3 b3e3 f3e3 d8e7 f8e6 e7d6 g8d8 d6c6 d8c8 c6d5 c8c5 d5d6 e3e4 f7a7 c5d5 d6e7 e6c5 a7c7 e4f4 c7c6 c5e4 c6c4 

info multipv 3 score cp 521 depth 32 time 2600331 nodes 26478057276 nps 10182571 pv g6h6 b7c7 h6h8 e8f7 h8h5 e7f8 h5h7 f7e8 h7c7 c6c7 g1e1 e8f7 c4b6 c5c4 b6c4 c7c5 f3e4 c5c8 e1d1 c8e8 e4f4 e8b8 d1d7 f7e8 d7d3 f8c5 a4a5 b8a8 h3h4 c5b4 d3d5 e8f8 f4e4 f8g8 d5b5 b4e1 b3b4 e1h4 b5b6 a8c8 

info multipv 4 score cp 468 depth 32 time 2600331 nodes 26478057276 nps 10182571 pv g1e1 e8f8 e1e2 b7c7 e2g2 f8e8 g6g8 e7f8 g8h8 e8f7 h8h7 f7e8 g2e2 f8e7 h7h5 c7d7 h5h8 e8f7 h8h7 f7f8 e2e3 d7b7 a4a5 b6a5 c4a5 c6c7 a5b7 c7b7 h3h4 b7d7 

info multipv 5 score cp 448 depth 32 time 2600332 nodes 26478057276 nps 10182567 pv g1g2 e7f8 g2e2 e8d8 g6g8 b7f7 e2e6 d8d7 c4b6 d7c7 b6c4 c7d7 e6e1 h5h4 g8h8 f8d6 e1d1 d7c7 h8h4 d6h2 h4e4 h2e5 d1c1 f7h7 c4e5 f6e5 h3h4 c7d6 e4g4 d6d7 c1d1 d7e8 f3e4 c6b6 g4g8 e8f7 g8d8 h7h4 e4e5 h4d4 d8d7 d4d7 d1d7 f7e8 d7d3 b6b4 f5f6 b4b6
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mhalstern
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:09 am

Re: Stockfish's Top Five Moves

Post by mhalstern »

Interesting position:

Naum 4.2 at 26 ply likes Rg8+ at +3.83. With N-E5 having been played, at Ply 26, Naum has the score at +3.89.


New game
4k3/1r2b3/1pr2pR1/2p2P1p/P1N5/1P3K1P/8/6R1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Naum 4.2:

1.a5 bxa5 2.Nxa5 Rcb6 3.Nxb7 Rxb3+
+/- (0.95) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 10kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rd7 3.Re1+ Kf7
+/- (1.04) Depth: 6/18 00:00:00 12kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rd7 3.Rgg8 Rf7 4.Rxh5
+/- (1.22) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 20kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.Rd1 Rg7 4.Rxh5 Rd7
+- (1.49) Depth: 8/17 00:00:00 30kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Kd7 4.Rxh5 Rg7 5.Rxg7+
+- (1.46) Depth: 9/18 00:00:00 40kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 h4 3.Ke4 Re7+ 4.Kd5 Rcc7 5.Nd6+ Kd7
+- (1.55) Depth: 10/21 00:00:00 89kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Kd7 4.Rxh5 Ke8 5.Re1+ Kd7 6.Rh8
+- (1.62) Depth: 11/23 00:00:00 147kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Re7 4.Rgg8 Rf7 5.Ke4 Ke7 6.Kf4 Ke8
+- (1.69) Depth: 12/24 00:00:00 234kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Ke7 4.Rgg8 Rc8 5.Nxb6 Rd8 6.a5 Kd6 7.Nc4+
+- (1.83) Depth: 13/39 00:00:00 1029kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Ke7 4.Rgg8 Rc8 5.Nxb6 Rd8 6.a5 Kd6 7.Nc4+ Kc6
+- (1.83) Depth: 14/20 00:00:00 1082kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Ke7 4.Rgg8 Rc8 5.Nxb6 Rd8 6.a5 Kd6 7.Nc4+ Kc6 8.Kf2
+- (1.83) Depth: 15/28 00:00:00 1511kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Kd7 4.Rxh5 Rc7 5.Nxb6+ Kc6 6.Nc4 Rcd7 7.Re1 Kb7 8.Rh8 Bg7
+- (2.23) Depth: 16/44 00:00:01 6763kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Kd7 4.Rxh5 Rc7 5.Nxb6+ Kc6 6.Nc4 Rcd7 7.Re1 Kb7 8.Rh8 Rd3+ 9.Re3
+- (2.30) Depth: 17/38 00:00:01 10793kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Kd7 4.Rxh5 Rc7 5.Nxb6+ Kc6 6.Nc4 Rcd7 7.Re1 Rd5 8.Re6+ Kb7 9.Rb6+ Ka7
+- (2.28) Depth: 18/42 00:00:02 16128kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Kd7 4.Rxh5 Rc7 5.Nxb6+ Kc6 6.Nc4 Rcd7 7.Re1 Rd3+ 8.Re3 Rd1 9.Re6+ Kb7 10.Rh8
+- (2.49) Depth: 19/46 00:00:05 42155kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Kd7 4.Rxh5 Rc7 5.Nxb6+ Kc6 6.Nc4 Rcd7 7.Re1 Rd3+ 8.Re3 Rd1 9.Re6+ Kb7 10.Rh8 Rb1
+- (2.49) Depth: 20/41 00:00:06 53332kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Kd8 4.Rxh5 Rc8 5.Nxb6 Rb8 6.a5 Kc7 7.Rh8 Rd8 8.Re1 Rd3+ 9.Re3 Rd1 10.Ke2 Ra1 11.Nc4
+- (2.50) Depth: 21/49 00:00:12 98061kN
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Kd8 4.Rxh5 Rcc7 5.Nxb6 Ra7 6.Re1 Kc7 7.Re6 c4 8.Nd5+ Kb7 9.Rb6+ Kc8 10.Rc6+ Kb7 11.Rxc4 Ra5
+- (2.95) Depth: 22/62 00:01:03 495mN, tb=344
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Ra7 3.Rgg8 Rf7 4.Ke4 Ke7 5.Kd5 Rc7 6.Nxb6 Ke8 7.a5 Ra7 8.Kc6 Rxa5 9.Nc4
+- (2.94) Depth: 23/56 00:01:36 768mN, tb=457
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Ke7 4.Rxh5 Rc8 5.Nxb6 Rb8 6.Re1+ Kd8 7.Re6 Kc7 8.Nd5+ Kd8 9.Re3 Kd7 10.Rh7 Rxh7 11.Nxf6+ Kd6 12.Nxh7 Bg7
+- (3.10) Depth: 24/62 00:03:40 1769mN, tb=1241
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Ke7 4.Re1+ Kd7 5.Rxh5 Rc7 6.Nxb6+ Kc6 7.Re6+ Kb7 8.Rh8 Bg7 9.Rd8 Rf8 10.Rxf8 Bxf8 11.Rxf6 c4 12.Nxc4 Rc8 13.Nd6+
+- (3.61) Depth: 25/62 00:06:54 3415mN, tb=3562
1.Rg8+ Bf8 2.Rh8 Rf7 3.h4 Re7 4.Rgg8 Rf7 5.Ke4 Ke7 6.Kd5 Rc7 7.Nxb6 Ke8 8.a5 Ra7 9.Nc4 Ra6 10.Ke4 Ke7 11.Rxh5 Kd7 12.Rhh8 Bg7 13.Rh7 Re7+
+- (3.83) Depth: 26/62 00:11:34 5822mN, tb=32002



New game
4k3/1r2b3/1pr2pR1/2p1NP1p/P7/1P3K1P/8/6R1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Naum 4.2:

1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rh8
+/- (1.20) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 7kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rh8 Kd7
+/- (1.35) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 9kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rh8 Kd7 5.Nxf8+
+/- (1.29) Depth: 8/19 00:00:00 12kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Ra8 5.Rd6 Rb8
+- (1.61) Depth: 9/23 00:00:00 66kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Rb8 5.Rd6 b5 6.axb5
+- (2.03) Depth: 10/28 00:00:00 148kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Ra8 5.Rd6 Rb8 6.Ke4 h4
+- (2.37) Depth: 11/32 00:00:00 439kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Ra8 5.Rd6 Rb8 6.Ke4 c4 7.bxc4
+- (2.40) Depth: 12/30 00:00:00 635kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Ra8 5.Rd3 c4 6.bxc4 Rc8 7.Rd6 Rb8
+- (2.38) Depth: 13/36 00:00:00 1778kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Ra8 5.Rd3 c4 6.bxc4 Rc8 7.Rd6 Rb8 8.Ke4
+- (2.40) Depth: 14/29 00:00:00 1966kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Ra8 5.Rd3 Rc8 6.Rd6 Rb8 7.Ke4 c4 8.bxc4 Rc8
+- (2.40) Depth: 15/32 00:00:00 2503kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Ra8 5.Rd3 Rc8 6.Rd2 Ra8 7.Rd6 Rb8 8.Ke4 c4 9.bxc4
+- (2.40) Depth: 16/34 00:00:00 3597kN
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Rb8 5.Rd6 b5 6.axb5 Rxb5 7.Re6+ Kd8 8.Re3 c4 9.Nxf8 Rxf5+
+- (3.10) Depth: 17/52 00:00:05 40848kN, tb=63
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Rb8 5.Rd6 b5 6.axb5 Rxb5 7.Re6+ Kd8 8.Re3 c4 9.Nxf8 Rxf5+ 10.Ke2
+- (3.10) Depth: 18/39 00:00:05 44529kN, tb=65
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Rb8 5.Rd6 b5 6.axb5 Rxb5 7.Re6+ Kd8 8.Re3 c4 9.Nxf8 Rxf5+ 10.Ke2 Kc7
+- (3.20) Depth: 19/54 00:00:09 74051kN, tb=73
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Rb8 5.Rd6 b5 6.axb5 Rxb5 7.Re6+ Kd8 8.Re3 c4 9.Nxf8 Rxf5+ 10.Ke2 Kc7 11.bxc4
+- (3.20) Depth: 20/42 00:00:11 91076kN, tb=75
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Rb8 5.Rd6 b5 6.axb5 Rxb5 7.Re6+ Kd8 8.Re3 c4 9.Nxf8 Rxf5+ 10.Ke2 Kc7 11.bxc4 Kd6
+- (3.20) Depth: 21/43 00:00:14 123mN, tb=97
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Ra8 5.Rd6 Rb8 6.Ke4 h4 7.Kd5 Rc8 8.Nxf8 Rxf8 9.Rxf8+ Kxf8 10.Rxf6+ Kg7 11.Rxb6 c4 12.f6+
+- (3.63) Depth: 22/62 00:01:27 730mN, tb=2358
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Rb8 5.Rd6 b5 6.axb5 Rxb5 7.Re6+ Kd8 8.Re3 c4 9.bxc4 Rxf5+ 10.Ke4 Rc5 11.Kd4 Rg5 12.Rxf8+ Rxf8
+- (3.89) Depth: 23/62 00:04:21 2233mN, tb=16774
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Rb8 5.Rd6 b5 6.axb5 Rxb5 7.Re6+ Kd8 8.Re3 c4 9.bxc4 Rxf5+ 10.Ke4 Rc5 11.Kd4 Rg5 12.Rxf8+ Rxf8 13.Nxf8
+- (3.89) Depth: 24/45 00:05:09 2655mN, tb=18121
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Rb8 5.Rd6 b5 6.axb5 Rxb5 7.Re6+ Kd8 8.Re3 c4 9.bxc4 Rxf5+ 10.Ke4 Rc5 11.Kd4 Rg5 12.Rxf8+ Rxf8 13.Nxf8 Rf5
+- (3.89) Depth: 25/52 00:06:12 3220mN, tb=19274
1...Rc8 2.Rg8+ Bf8 3.Ng6 Rf7 4.Rd1 Rb8 5.Rd6 b5 6.axb5 Rxb5 7.Re6+ Kd8 8.Re3 c4 9.bxc4 Rxf5+ 10.Ke4 Rc5 11.Kd4 Rg5 12.Rxf8+ Rxf8 13.Nxf8 Rf5 14.Ne6+
+- (3.89) Depth: 26/54 00:08:08 4269mN, tb=24134
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PawnStormZ
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:43 am

position from Kramnik Carlsen at Bilbao

Post by PawnStormZ »

 
   My point is that most DO see the move as 2nd choice in single pv mode, so I assume that they look a few moves further along the "line" when rating it #2.
 
   Why then when you play the move it ups the score almost immediately when looking at (I assume) the same moves along that "line"?

   I guess the question is what does it "think" differently when looking at it as the #2 vs looking at it when played?
   
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