Lieden 2010

[Werner]

Results of the first day:

Pairing of round 1 of International CSVN Tournament 2010
Table White - Black Results
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- round 1

Code: Select all

  1   The Baron                    ( 0  ) - Rybka                        ( 0  )   8-  1  0-1    
  2   Deep Shredder                ( 0  ) - The King                     ( 0  )   2-  9  1/2    
  3   Pandix                       ( 0  ) - Deep Junior                  ( 0  )  10-  3  0-1    
  4   Hiarcs                       ( 0  ) - Kallisto                     ( 0  )   4- 11  1-0    
  5   RedQueen                     ( 0  ) - Deep Sjeng                   ( 0  )  12-  5  0-1    
  6   Spark                        ( 0  ) - Joker                        ( 0  )   6- 13  1-0    
  7   Almond                       ( 0  ) - Komodo                       ( 0  )  14-  7  0-1  

Pairing of round 2 of International CSVN Tournament 2010
Table White - Black Results
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- round 2

Code: Select all

  1   Rybka                        ( 1  ) - Komodo                       ( 1  )   1-  7  1-0    
  2   Deep Junior                  ( 1  ) - Spark                        ( 1  )   3-  6  1/2    
  3   Deep Sjeng                   ( 1  ) - Hiarcs                       ( 1  )   5-  4  1/2    
  4   Almond                       ( 0  ) - Deep Shredder                ( 0.5)  14-  2  0-1    
  5   The King                     ( 0.5) - RedQueen                     ( 0  )   9- 12  1-0    
  6   Joker                        ( 0  ) - The Baron                    ( 0  )  13-  8  0-1    
  7   Kallisto                     ( 0  ) - Pandix                       ( 0  )  11- 10  1-0 

Pairing of round 3 of International CSVN Tournament 2010
Table White - Black Results
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- round 3

Code: Select all

  1   Spark                        ( 1.5) - Rybka                        ( 2  )   6-  1  0-1    
  2   Hiarcs                       ( 1.5) - The King                     ( 1.5)   4-  9  1-0    
  3   Deep Shredder                ( 1.5) - Deep Sjeng                   ( 1.5)   2-  5  1/2    
  4   The Baron                    ( 1  ) - Deep Junior                  ( 1.5)   8-  3  0-1    
  5   Komodo                       ( 1  ) - Kallisto                     ( 1  )   7- 11  1-0    
  6   RedQueen                     ( 0  ) - Almond                       ( 0  )  12- 14  0-1    
  7   Pandix                       ( 0  ) - Joker                        ( 0  )  10- 13  1-0    

Ranking after round 3 of International CSVN Tournament 2010

Code: Select all

No.  PNo.  Name                       Score WP    SB     PS    rat.  TPR  W-We
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1.    1  Rybka                       3.0   4.5   4.50   6.0  0000  -   0    
  2.    4  Hiarcs                      2.5   4.5   3.50   5.0  0000  -   0    
        3  Deep Junior                 2.5   3.5   2.75   5.0  0000  -   0    
  4.    7  Komodo                      2.0   5.0   2.00   4.0  0000  -   0    
        2  Deep Shredder               2.0   4.5   2.75   4.0  0000  -   0    
        5  Deep Sjeng                  2.0   4.5   2.25   4.5  0000  -   0    
  7.    6  Spark                       1.5   5.5   1.25   4.0  0000  -   0    
        9  The King                    1.5   4.5   1.00   3.5  0000  -   0    
  9.   11  Kallisto                    1.0   5.5   1.00   2.0  0000  -   0    
        8  The Baron                   1.0   5.5   0.00   2.0  0000  -   0    
       14  Almond                      1.0   4.0   0.00   1.0  0000  -   0    
       10  Pandix                      1.0   3.5   0.00   1.0  0000  -   0    
 13.   12  RedQueen                    0.0   4.5   0.00   0.0  0000  -   0    
       13  Joker                       0.0   3.5   0.00   0.0  0000  -   0   

Pairing of round 4 of International CSVN Tournament 2010
Table White - Black Results
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- round 4

Code: Select all

  1   Rybka                        ( 3  ) - Hiarcs                       ( 2.5)   1-  4        
  2   Deep Junior                  ( 2.5) - Deep Sjeng                   ( 2  )   3-  5        
  3   Komodo                       ( 2  ) - Deep Shredder                ( 2  )   7-  2        
  4   The King                     ( 1.5) - Spark                        ( 1.5)   9-  6        
  5   Kallisto                     ( 1  ) - Almond                       ( 1  )  11- 14        
  6   Pandix                       ( 1  ) - The Baron                    ( 1  )  10-  8        
  7   Joker                        ( 0  ) - RedQueen                     ( 0  )  13- 12

[IanO]

Of course we would be allowed to participate. I even received a personal invitation to the Leiden tournament this year.

I didn't know you are really still an official member of SF development team. What I know is that SF is a clone of Glaurung. Then you joined the team of cloners and dumped your own engine! which is a very polite? and very respectful thing to do. But as I read, you weren't involved with the latest SF improvments, so I thought you left.
If I were the cloners I would show even more respect for you (as they have already shown) and would give SF its REAL name back, Glaurung! So I do suggest to rename it to something like Glaurung 3 or Xtreme etc. , I think SF name is a bit silly !

I've always loved the spectacular king attacking style of Glaurung and wish you could bring it back

In my opinion, the derogatory term "clone" only applies to projects where copyright violations have occurred, like the Ippolit branches and unsanctioned Crafty experiments. The neutral open source term is "fork".

I don't think you understand how the open source community works. When a project is open with a GNU license, it is perfectly allowed to fork (not clone) your own project as long as that project retains the same open license. This kind of friendly competition happens all the time in the open source world, where it is seen as a kind of meritocracy. Normally, whether one fork or another survives long term is a matter of popularity, both among users and developers. Many things influence popularity: product quality, readable code base, even politics. It is not at all uncommon for one branch of a fork to wither and die off, especially when developers move to a more popular branch as happened with Stockfish. The same thing happened with Fruit: the original branch is no longer developed but there is a rich community around Toga II.

That said, I think it is perfectly fine for a tournament organizer to enforce some sort of "no copies" rule, if for no other reason than to have more variety of play and to avoid collusion. Do folks still remember the days of the WMCCC, when Fidelity and Mephisto would enter three or four copies of their computers to increase their chances of grabbing a title?

P.S. I found the Stockfish name more appropriate after learning the history of the stockfish trade from Norway to Italy (specifically, Marco's home town!) Glaurung and Gothmog were both really good names though! Anyway, Glaurung by any other name is hell to beat.

[Zagalo]

In my opinion, the derogatory term "clone" only applies to projects where copyright violations have occurred, like the Ippolit branches and unsanctioned Crafty experiments. The neutral open source term is "fork".
...
... Anyway, Glaurung by any other name is hell to beat.

Well I think there is a legal (licenced) clone and an illegal clone. Ippolit is an illegal clone. Toga is a legal clone of fruit. Cyclone & Protector are Toga's clones..etc.

My main point is that without the original author of Glaurung, SF team would not get an official invitation to Leiden, and SF would be considered a (legal) clone and would not be allowed in most official tournaments. Its that simple.

So, in my opinion, for SF team to show their appreciation, gratitude and greater respect for the original author, they should, at least, give the engine back the name its original author gave it, Glaurung! which is what it really is after all, a modified Glaurung. I think this is the least they could do for the original author because without him SF is a mere clone and is banned from most tournaments!

[hgm]

I don't see any reason why Stockfish should not be welcome in Leiden, even if Tord had not been on the team. As long as Glaurung does not want to participate at the same time. I don't see any reason not to admit Toga II, as long as Fruit does not want to participate at the same time.

Only if both versions want to compete, there would be a problem, and it would be a tough call for the organizer to solve it. What you do would depend on the purpose of the tournament. If you want to offer the strongest Chess for the audience, you would go for the fork with the highest Elo. If your purpose is to provide an environment for interaction between programmers, you would go for the version that is operated by a programmer that made the most significant contribution, even if the Elo was lower.

[PauloSoare]

Glaurung clone? A bad joke.
A pity that stockfish not played in Leiden.

[Thomas Lagershausen]

I want real chessgames

Any live coverage tomoorow?

[Zagalo]

Glaurung clone? A bad joke.

If you remove Glaurung code from SF you will be left with a bad joke !

[Zagalo]

The battle of the clusters. Leiden round 6: Rybka 4 - Deep Sjeng

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=17167



AG,SUJ - Deep Sjeng 3.2 BL24AC [C45]
Blitz:80' LONDON, 29.05.2010

2048MB, Cryptic.ctg, PC-25 1.e4 0 1...e5 B 0 2.Nf3 8 2...Nc6 B 0 3.d4 6 3...exd4 B 0 4.Nxd4 6 4...Bc5 B 0 5.Be3 10 5...Qf6 B 0 6.c3 7 6...Nge7 B 0 7.Bc4 8 7...Ne5 B 0 8.Be2 10 8...Qg6 B 0 9.0-0 14 9...d6 B 0 10.f4 8 10...Qxe4 B 0 11.Bf2 8 11...Bxd4 B 0 12.cxd4 7 12...N5g6 B 0 13.g3 12 13...Bh3 B 0 14.Bf3 8 14...Qf5 B 0 15.Re1 13 15...d5 B 0 16.Qb3 8 16...0-0 B 0 17.Nc3 129 17...c6 B 0 18.Qxb7 164 18...Rfb8 B 0 19.Qc7 52 19...Qf6 B 0 20.b3 331 20...Nf5 0.00/24 129 21.Rad1 15 21...Rc8 0.00/23 140 22.Qa5 12 (Qb7) 22...Nf8 0.00/23 472 23.Na4 99 (Qa6) 23...Qg6 0.00/25 108 24.Qd2 19 (Nc5) 24...Nh4 0.00/24 102 25.Bh1 12 25...Qg4 0.00/26 73 26.Be3 14 (Rc1) 26...Ne6 0.00/27 214 27.Qf2 263 (Rc1) 27...Qg6 0.00/25 89 28.Nb2 11 28...Bf5 0.00/25 103 29.Rc1 230 (Kf1) 29...Be4 0.00/24 351 30.Bd2 129 30...Bxh1 0.15/22 27 31.Kxh1 35 31...Nf5 0.15/24 124 32.Nd3 19 32...Nfxd4 0.15/24 106 33.Ne5 16 33...Qf6 0.04/23 52 34.b4 15 34...a5 0.04/24 173 35.bxa5 224 35...Rc7 0.00/24 0 36.Bb4 81 36...h5 0.00/21 88 37.Red1 16 (Bd6) 37...c5 0.00/23 76 38.Rxc5 57 (Bxc5) 38...Nxc5 -1.10/20 86 39.Bxc5 363 (Qxd4) 39...Nc6 -1.41/21 60 40.Bb6 9 Line

....

Rybka - Sjeng 0-1

According to Kullberg, there was a Technical problem: - that was a depth 7 move after which the cluster stopped working..

[michiguel]

I don't see any reason why Stockfish should not be welcome in Leiden, even if Tord had not been on the team. As long as Glaurung does not want to participate at the same time. I don't see any reason not to admit Toga II, as long as Fruit does not want to participate at the same time.

Only if both versions want to compete, there would be a problem, and it would be a tough call for the organizer to solve it. What you do would depend on the purpose of the tournament. If you want to offer the strongest Chess for the audience, you would go for the fork with the highest Elo. If your purpose is to provide an environment for interaction between programmers, you would go for the version that is operated by a programmer that made the most significant contribution, even if the Elo was lower.

These type of problems are easily solve with the following rules (not very different from scientific manuscripts submitted for publication)
1) Each program needs to declare who the authors are.
2) Each program needs the permission from each of the authors to participate.
3) No author can be in more than one entry

Miguel

[Harvey Williamson]

Too bad the Stockfish team aren't competing. What kind of incentives would it take for them to come to a tournament?

Clones are not allowed

In fact StockFish was invited.