Twisted Logic new version!

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BubbaTough
Posts: 1154
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:18 am

Re: Twisted Logic new version!

Post by BubbaTough » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:00 pm

bob wrote:
Edsel Apostol wrote:There's a new Twisted Logic version here:

http://www.geocities.com/ed_apostol/index.htm

Just take a look at the readme file for more information.
I am not quite sure what to make of this program, but I can tell you one thing for certain. There is a certain level of dishonesty surrounding the thing.

For example, I watched Crafty lose 3 of 4 games to it last weekend. It was kibitzing (TwistedLogicCCT) and claimed to be searching 80K nodes per second. <sigh>
Is that on ICC? I haven't downloaded the new version, but I did a speed test for Edsel before his release of a couple different compiles and was getting around ~1.5 million NPS. 80k just sounds bizarre. Perhaps it was 800k? Even someone being dishonest would make up something more believable I think.

-Sam

Audmeister
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:38 am

Re: Twisted Logic new version!

Post by Audmeister » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:08 pm

Sorry Bob, this was my fault, I was running a rybka because I was testing a book. I had it on my notes for a little while, then I reverted back to TwistedLogic and took it off.

bob
Posts: 20923
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Twisted Logic new version!

Post by bob » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:28 pm

BubbaTough wrote:
bob wrote:
Edsel Apostol wrote:There's a new Twisted Logic version here:

http://www.geocities.com/ed_apostol/index.htm

Just take a look at the readme file for more information.
I am not quite sure what to make of this program, but I can tell you one thing for certain. There is a certain level of dishonesty surrounding the thing.

For example, I watched Crafty lose 3 of 4 games to it last weekend. It was kibitzing (TwistedLogicCCT) and claimed to be searching 80K nodes per second. <sigh>
Is that on ICC? I haven't downloaded the new version, but I did a speed test for Edsel before his release of a couple different compiles and was getting around ~1.5 million NPS. 80k just sounds bizarre. Perhaps it was 800k? Even someone being dishonest would make up something more believable I think.

-Sam
Here are some samples from games the last 2 weeks or so:

TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=11 time=5.69 node=833717 speed=150066 score=+6.82 pv="Re2"
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=16 time=9.22 node=882520 speed=98015 score=+2.92 pv="d5 Rb3 Kxe6 Rb5"
aics%
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=16 time=9.50 node=900738 speed=97079 score=+2.92 pv="d5 Rb3 Kxe6 Rb5"
aics%
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=14 time=2.08 node=186556 speed=91887 score=+3.26 pv="Kxe6 Kb1 Ke5"
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=15 time=7.02 node=528932 speed=77187 score=+2.25 pv="Rc2 hxg5 hxg5 Rg4 f6 Ke1 Kf7 Kd1 Rb2 Rc1 Ra2 Rcc4 Ra8 Kc1 Re2 Rg3"
aics%
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=15 time=7.89 node=601819 speed=78087 score=+2.25 pv="Rc2 hxg5 hxg5 Rg4 f6 Ke1 Kf7 Kd1 Rb2 Rc1 Ra2 Rcc4 Ra8 Kc1 Re2 Rg3"
aics%
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=15 time=14.55 node=1177775 speed=82900 score=+2.25 pv="hxg5 Rg4 f6 Ke1 Kf7 Kd1 Rb2 Rc1 Ra2 Rcc4 Ra8 Kc1 Re2 Rg3"
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=16 time=7.22 node=612761 speed=86918 score=+1.96 pv="Ra8 Rc4 Bxb2 Nxb2 Rxb2 Ra1 Ra5 h4 Kg7 Re4 Kf8 Kh2 Rd2 Rb1 Ra7 hxg5 hxg5"
aics%
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=17 time=12.94 node=1101555 speed=87184 score=+1.98 pv="Bxb2 Nxb2 Rxb2 Ra1 Ra5 h4 f6 hxg5 hxg5 Kh2 Rb3 e4 Kf7 Kg1 g4 Kf2 Kg6 g3"
aics%
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=17 time=13.72 node=1151960 speed=85983 score=+1.98 pv="Bxb2 Nxb2 Rxb2 Ra1 Ra5 h4 f6 hxg5 hxg5 Kh2 Rb3 e4 Kf7 Kg1 g4 Kf2 Kg6 g3"
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=13 time=6.97 node=516759 speed=75919 score=+1.63 pv="Nf6 Nc3 Rab8 a4 Nd7 Nb5 Qe4 Re2 Qxa4 Nc3 Bxc3 bxc3 Ne5"
aics%
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=13 time=7.56 node=544340 speed=73691 score=+1.63 pv="Nf6 Nc3 Rab8 a4 Nd7 Nb5 Qe4 Re2 Qxa4 Nc3 Bxc3 bxc3 Ne5"
aics%
TwistedLogicCCT(C) kibitzes: depth=13 time=7.77 node=581924 speed=76720 score=+1.63 pv="Rab8 a4 Ne8 Nb5 Qe4 Ra1 Rxb2 Rxb2 Bxb2 Ra2 Bf6 h3 Ra8 Ra3"

Those are from several different games. The NPS is pretty consistent, going from 60K to maybe 150K in the late endgame. None of which do I believe for a minute. Nor the depths of course.

bob
Posts: 20923
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Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Twisted Logic new version!

Post by bob » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:29 pm

Audmeister wrote:Sorry Bob, this was my fault, I was running a rybka because I was testing a book. I had it on my notes for a little while, then I reverted back to TwistedLogic and took it off.
There you go...

This is a real no-no on ICC. And they will actually ban you for doing so. It screws up the ratings, not to mention opponent learning information and such.

Audmeister
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:38 am

Re: Twisted Logic new version!

Post by Audmeister » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:01 pm

I see and understand, wont happen again.

What about the accounts that say they run Rybka, Naum, Hiarcs and other engines? That is illegal?

bob
Posts: 20923
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Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Twisted Logic new version!

Post by bob » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:45 am

Audmeister wrote:I see and understand, wont happen again.

What about the accounts that say they run Rybka, Naum, Hiarcs and other engines? That is illegal?
According to existing ICC policy, I assume it is OK so long as this is advertised. I noplay such accounts myself since I have no idea exactly what I am playing at any time. ICC has, in the past, not liked a computer account to be to variable in how it plays, but I can only assume that they accept this based on the notes, unless they simply have not noticed nor been told.

Eizenhammer

Re: Twisted Logic new version!

Post by Eizenhammer » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:38 pm

bob wrote:
Audmeister wrote:Sorry Bob, this was my fault, I was running a rybka because I was testing a book. I had it on my notes for a little while, then I reverted back to TwistedLogic and took it off.
There you go...

This is a real no-no on ICC. And they will actually ban you for doing so. ...
But making clone accusations based on nothing is a yes-yes?
Before starting such crap it should be yes-yes to download the "suspicious" version and have a look, instead of making up things based on some games played by whoever with whatever engine on just some server.
But of course you are not going to apologize, well, things never change ...

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Matthias Gemuh
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Re: Twisted Logic new version!

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:44 pm

Eizenhammer wrote: But making clone accusations based on nothing is a yes-yes?
Before starting such crap it should be yes-yes to download the "suspicious" version and have a look, instead of making up things based on some games played by whoever with whatever engine on just some server.
But of course you are not going to apologize, well, things never change ...
Try to be a bit more precise.
Bob has not accused TwistedLogic of being a clone.
He merely said TwistedLogic was displaying dishonest search infos on ICC.

Matthias.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

Eizenhammer

Re: Twisted Logic new version!

Post by Eizenhammer » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:10 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:
Try to be a bit more precise.
Bob has not accused TwistedLogic of being a clone.
He merely said TwistedLogic was displaying dishonest search infos on ICC.

Matthias.
Mr. Hyatt: "While it is hard to get a handle on the "is this a clone" question, clearly when a program kibitzes nonsense, suspicion is more than justified."

I thought this was clear enough, but reading skills are a rare thing here.

Christopher Conkie
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Re: Twisted Logic new version!

Post by Christopher Conkie » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:33 pm

Eizenhammer wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:
Try to be a bit more precise.
Bob has not accused TwistedLogic of being a clone.
He merely said TwistedLogic was displaying dishonest search infos on ICC.

Matthias.
Mr. Hyatt: "While it is hard to get a handle on the "is this a clone" question, clearly when a program kibitzes nonsense, suspicion is more than justified."

I thought this was clear enough, but reading skills are a rare thing here.
Look up the meaning of the word "suspicion".

Language skills are also a problem it seems.

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