Norm Schmidt .....and the computer chess

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Why ???????

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:02 pm

Michael Diosi wrote:You are on the right way to understand however the direction is wrong. Like people say Cuba is on the right way...I always had to laugh about this

All cloners have taken the wrong direction too. Let them show they really understand programming and not just changing evaliuation values.
Let them make Popeye SMP aware, I bet they can't.

Till then I am still working on a big article for the Arena page with code sniplets, personal pictures, e-mail statements, test positions, spelling mistakes in the code, frernch/spanish words in Indian/Russian code and much more.

http://www.playwitharena.com
Come on Michael,how many times do you have to advertise your site :?:

:D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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Michael Diosi
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Re: Why ???????

Post by Michael Diosi » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:22 pm

Hi,

:oops:

:idea: you are the first to understand what it is all about :D 8-)

But Arena still remains free we don't sell anything, it's just for the benefit of the chess comunity. Also the info available there is widely appreciated as our daily hits show. I will try and make the old news ticker from the old page available, now that we have enough space.

I bet the clone/cloners section as well as the board adapters section will have the most hits. Just so much work...by the way not one person in the possession of such a board voluntered to write a few lines.

Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com

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Olivier Deville
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Re:Original project

Post by Olivier Deville » Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:03 pm

Steve B wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
Michael Diosi wrote:Sorry, the fact that Zach is saying he looke d at it found out that is not a proof either, it's a statement.


I will publish all the ncessary info at the Arena page:

http://www.playwitharena.com
I'm not agreeing one way or the other at present because I'm not a programmer. However, I thought that the moderators had agreed that clone claims were not allowed in CCC without proof being posted here to back up the claim.

Cheers,
Graham.
well that was the philosophy of the prior mod team Graham
however we now have a new team and i am not so sure if that is now the current philosophy
i know i still feel the same way
however even the prior mod team took the position that clone accusations would not be allowed ONLY IF no debatable proof was offered with in a reasonable period of time
i guess 24 hours would be reasonable (but the time frame was never actually set in stone)
the accuser in this case seems to suggest he will offer debatable proof here so lets see if he does
if he does not then the mods will discuss the current position on clone accusations being allowed with no proof being offered

Regards
Steve
Thanks Steve, good policy :)

Olivier

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Why ???????

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:15 pm

Michael Diosi wrote:Hi,

:oops:

:idea: you are the first to understand what it is all about :D 8-)

But Arena still remains free we don't sell anything, it's just for the benefit of the chess comunity. Also the info available there is widely appreciated as our daily hits show. I will try and make the old news ticker from the old page available, now that we have enough space.

I bet the clone/cloners section as well as the board adapters section will have the most hits. Just so much work...by the way not one person in the possession of such a board voluntered to write a few lines.

Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com
Hi,
No one on mother Earth can deny the great job you are doing with Christopher catching the cloners and saving our testing time and hardware resources....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

gerold
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Re: Why ???????

Post by gerold » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:33 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Michael Diosi wrote:Hi,

:oops:

:idea: you are the first to understand what it is all about :D 8-)

But Arena still remains free we don't sell anything, it's just for the benefit of the chess comunity. Also the info available there is widely appreciated as our daily hits show. I will try and make the old news ticker from the old page available, now that we have enough space.

I bet the clone/cloners section as well as the board adapters section will have the most hits. Just so much work...by the way not one person in the possession of such a board voluntered to write a few lines.

Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com
Hi,
No one on mother Earth can deny the great job you are doing with Christopher catching the cloners and saving our testing time and hardware resources....
Dr.D
I agree with that statement Dr.D. :) .

Best,

Gerold.

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Rolf
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For Clones we dont need private police but Good logic

Post by Rolf » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:27 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: Hi,
No one on mother Earth can deny the great job you are doing with Christopher catching the cloners and saving our testing time and hardware resources....
Dr.D
Excuse me if I disagree. It's just the computerchess community to begin with and then this community, at least here on CCC, is a bit undecided.
In some cases it creates a lot of suspicion against alleged fakes but then that same community is trying to whitewash certain persons. And then it's a disturbing coincidence when a proven several times sinner was among those hunters who wanted to chase certain fake(r)s. The private hunter principle brings a factor into our community that is not sane, as if it were news that certain experts could reveil any sort of fakes if necessary. That alone should be enough to prevent the most fakes. But to praise a private group that is constantly chasing after fakes in a style of police is therefore problematic because the community as such has never installed or authorized such a police institution. And - above all - that institution insinuates a sort of cleaness which isnt existing at all.

Two aspects:

- Practically all free programs and probably the commercial ones
too are based to 60 - 90 % on prior programs (enter your own %)

- The few commercial programs were never examined in detail


So, as a consequence I propose that procedure:

It is declared by the CC federation/community that cloning is forbidden and if discovered the cloner is no longer a participant in tests or plays.

It is declared that since commercial programs cant be examined, a certain individual cloning cant have influence on the status of a programmer.

Since commercials cant be examined any permanent bureau of investigation should be closed because it it's just a pain for motivated beginners or traditional delinquents, while the commercial guys bath themselves in the light of unchallengable good names.

A council of true experts (like Bob Hyatt plus NNs) can always be activated in case of serious doubts related to championships or such some.

Again IMO it's inacceptable to tolerate a private hunter group, as motivated as it might be, because this private group is acting under no control and it has no power in front of commercial programs. It disciplines the little amateurs and avoids to research the financially potent commercial entities. This is unfair, undemocratic and suppressing potential talents. Because all talents once in a while start and work with copies. And 90 % of the whole scene is mutual borrowed material.

I want to close this little memorandum with the following provocation:

If in case a talented programmer newbie would borrow 99% of the known stuff and with his 1% of new ideas or technical tricks he would get a program that is 10 or 20% stronger than all others, then the details of these 99% should have no attention by anyone since it cant logically be in no thinkable case that such an entity should be a clone if it's so much stronger than all others. So, believe it or not, in truth it's the strength that decides if it's regarded as a clone. The strongest thing on Earth cant be a clone by definition because then the cloned thing would be similarily strong.

With that simple rule or logic we could end all RYBKA debates now and foever. Period.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

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Graham Banks
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Re:Original project

Post by Graham Banks » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:48 am

Steve B wrote: the decision to ban Schmidt was a unanimous decision by the current mod team(of which i am a member)
If Norm is banned, shouldn't Osipov be banned also?
My email addresses:
gbanksnz at gmail.com
gbanksnz at yahoo.co.nz

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Guenther
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Re: Why ???????

Post by Guenther » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:58 am

Michael Diosi wrote:Hi,

:oops:

:idea: you are the first to understand what it is all about :D 8-)

But Arena still remains free we don't sell anything, it's just for the benefit of the chess comunity. Also the info available there is widely appreciated as our daily hits show. I will try and make the old news ticker from the old page available, now that we have enough space.

I bet the clone/cloners section as well as the board adapters section will have the most hits. Just so much work...by the way not one person in the possession of such a board voluntered to write a few lines.

Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com
I just want to mention that the cloners already are prepared to clone
your clone information page.
I found it by accident after a sleeping troll here suddenly awoke again
after two years and asked for some info about a hackers/cloners place.
It seems they will copy your infos 1:1, but of course they will interpret
it as a hall of fame in their eyes ;-)

http://tonythomas.mylivepage.com/wiki/4 ... nd_Cloners

Guenther

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Michael Diosi
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Re: Why ???????

Post by Michael Diosi » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:44 am

Hi,

:lol:

Very funny. Can he detect a clone ?

Michael
http://www.playwitharena.com

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Sylwy
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Re:Original project

Post by Sylwy » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:13 am

SzG wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:
Steve B wrote: the decision to ban Schmidt was a unanimous decision by the current mod team(of which i am a member)
If Norm is banned, shouldn't Osipov be banned also?
I think Norman was banned for violating the charter. AFAIK, Yuriy did not do such a thing.

..................and Yuriy decompiled Rybka 1.0 ! Nobel prize in computer chess 2008 ! And....a membership card.............


:lol: :lol: :lol:
Silvian
:wink:

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