When will come a new Toga Engine?

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Damir
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Re: When will come a new Toga Engine?

Post by Damir » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:16 am

Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
Werner wrote: The latest (private) Fruit engines tops them all, but unfortunately Ryan did not give them free till now.
Isn't that a GPL violation? Anyone who got the beta should be able to request the source and redistribute it.
Not if the private Fruit version are completely rewritten from the scratch, than the author can ask not to, since it is completely new engine, ... and besides there are very few people Ryan trusts to give them the source.

Gian-Carlo Pascutto
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Re: When will come a new Toga Engine?

Post by Gian-Carlo Pascutto » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:37 am

Damir wrote: Not if the private Fruit version are completely rewritten from the scratch, than the author can ask not to, since it is completely new engine,
What does it have to do with Fruit then? Besides, other people have already pointed out it's not a "completely rewritten engine".
... and besides there are very few people Ryan trusts to give them the source.
This isn't about trust. It's about legality.

From what I understand, Ryan got the source NOT under the GPL from Fabien (Fabien can do this, since his the author). In this case there is no problem.

Damir
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Re: When will come a new Toga Engine?

Post by Damir » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:48 am

The problem is Fabien is not Author of the private version of Fruit, Ryan is.

Fabien gave him the developing rights, so if Ryan decides not to make the source available, there is not really much Fabien can do about it, as he is no longer working on Fruit.

Gian-Carlo Pascutto
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Re: When will come a new Toga Engine?

Post by Gian-Carlo Pascutto » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:10 am

Damir wrote:The problem is Fabien is not Author of the private version of Fruit, Ryan is.
This would only be true if he rewrote the engine entirely. It's already been stated this is not the case.

Changing some lines in an engine does NOT make you the sole author nor does it give you the full rights to decide what to do with it!!!

This seems to be something all cloners don't want to understand.
Fabien gave him the developing rights, so if Ryan decides not to make the source available, there is not really much Fabien can do about it, as he is no longer working on Fruit.
If Fabien gave it under GPL, Ryan is liable. However it seems he got the code under something else than the GPL.

Damir
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Re: When will come a new Toga Engine?

Post by Damir » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:47 am

Even if he did, why should this be any of your business, it is between Fabien&Ryan, they are on the same team.
If Fabien wanted Ryan to release the private version of Fruit together with the source he could have easily done so, but he has not, nor does he want to.Regarding Ryan, he has all rights to Fruit now.... and Fabien is working on entirely new engine.

Peter Aloysius
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Re: When will come a new Toga Engine?

Post by Peter Aloysius » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:17 am

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Peter Aloysius wrote:
Edward German wrote:Hi all, hello Programmers!

When will we see a brand new Toga Engine? What happens here?

Regards,
Eduard
Someone who create "brand new" toga engine cannot be called programmer, they're ... cloner.
This is totaly incorrect....
A can of worms regards,
Dr.D
Why incorrect? They know next to nothing except how to use an editor and how to compile.

They even can't create a strong engine by their own.

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Eelco de Groot
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Re: When will come a new Toga Engine?

Post by Eelco de Groot » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:44 pm

Damir wrote:
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
Werner wrote: The latest (private) Fruit engines tops them all, but unfortunately Ryan did not give them free till now.
Isn't that a GPL violation? Anyone who got the beta should be able to request the source and redistribute it.
Not if the private Fruit version are completely rewritten from the scratch, than the author can ask not to, since it is completely new engine, ... and besides there are very few people Ryan trusts to give them the source.
Even if it is not completely new, as I understand it Fabien as the original author can develop something from his own sources and is not bound to release it under the GPL when he releases it. A commercial version of Fruit, after Fruit 2.1 which was GPL, would not have been possible otherwise? I mean, realistically a commercial open source chess program would at least not stay at the top very long I think :) .

Everybody else would be bound by the EULA, End Users License Agreement, for every program developed from FRUIT, but Fabien is not really an end user.

Ryan is coauthor of the private versions but it is up to both Fabien and Ryan to decide if any of the private Fruits would be released and in what form. Well this is just my interpretation.

Regards, Eelco
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan

Gian-Carlo Pascutto
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Re: When will come a new Toga Engine?

Post by Gian-Carlo Pascutto » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:00 pm

Eelco de Groot wrote: Everybody else would be bound by the EULA, End Users License Agreement, for every program developed from FRUIT, but Fabien is not really an end user.
The original author (Fabien) holds the copyright, so he's always free to release it under another license.

If he released it under another license, what is allowed depends entirely on what was in that license. (which we don't know)

Damir
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Re: When will come a new Toga Engine?

Post by Damir » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:16 pm

and how about Faile1.4.4 and Sjeng 7.0?
I heared Sjeng 7.0 too should be similar to Faile1.4.4?
Should it be considered a clone too, if you look on the source ?

Ryan Benitez
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Re: When will come a new Toga Engine?

Post by Ryan Benitez » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:34 pm

Damir wrote:and how about Faile1.4.4 and Sjeng 7.0?
I heared Sjeng 7.0 too should be similar to Faile1.4.4?
Should it be considered a clone too, if you look on the source ?
Sjeng was a GPL engine as was Faile. My understanding is that Deep Sjeng has no code in common with Faile. Fruit 2.3+ is non GPL with full rights given to me by Fabien. The copyright issues have been clarified with FSF because Fruit 2.1 is now owned by the FSF.

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