Fritz10 in correspondence chess question

[Uri Blass]

It is claimed that Alain Del Vecchio used Fritz10 to produce his moves

http://www.iccf-webchess.com/EventCross ... 14&order=p

GM Wolfram Schön explained why he suspected that his opponent is an engine in the following link
http://ancients.correspondencechess.com ... opic=147.0

GM Peter Coleman found that the opponent was probably Fritz10

Alain came last but scored 8 draws and 4 losses in category 12 tournament and I wonder if he used Fritz10 to play all his moves.

I do not have Fritz10 so I ask people who have that program to check if they can reproduce Alain's moves with Fritz10

The games of Alain are available in the first link that I gave in this post(you can click on every result of that player and get the games).

Uri

[shiv]

I am not very familiar with the rules of correspondence chess. Is computer use legally allowed in this tournament?

[Uri Blass]

I am not very familiar with the rules of correspondence chess. Is computer use legally allowed in this tournament?

Yes

It is allowed to use every help(both from computers and from humans)

Uri

[Tony Thomas]

If he is allowed to use Fritz 10, then why does it really matter? He could have been using Fritz 10 or any of the other 450 chess engines.

[Uri Blass]

If he is allowed to use Fritz 10, then why does it really matter? He could have been using Fritz 10 or any of the other 450 chess engines.

The interesting question is what is the rating of Fritz10 in correspondence chess in tournaments when people are allowed to use computers.

If he could draw most of his games with Fritz10 then it supports my theory that it is not clear that 2600 players can beat rybka3 in a corrspondence even if they use rybka3 to help them

see the following discussion in the rybka forum(the claim of the poster that does not have rybka3)

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... 6#pid76922

"I know few ICCF about 2400-2500 and these
are certainly not top and even they would be able to beat Rybka with a huge score."

I wonder how can he know that they could beat Rybka3 only by using non rybka engines when he does not have rybka3.

If rybka3 plays perfect chess in correspondence chess then the best that they can do is to draw the game and finding a line that rybka does not play perfect is not an easy job because you have no time to predict all rybka's moves and rybka may blunder at fast time control(1 hour per move) but not play the moves that you expect her to play at 24 hours per move.

Uri

[terminator]

I do not care for ICCF as its some kind of CCRL with human operators. Conjecture about Rybka 3 based on other engines is useless. No need to lose sleep over it.

[Uri Blass]

I do not care for ICCF as its some kind of CCRL with human operators. Conjecture about Rybka 3 based on other engines is useless. No need to lose sleep over it.

Not exactly.
I believe that many ICCF players use their brain.
part of them use their brain in a productive way and part of them use their brain in counter productive ways.

There were clearly cases when I played moves that were not suggested by the programs.

In big majority of the cases I do not do it but even one different move relative to the suggestion of the engine may change the result of the game.

Uri

[terminator]

I do not care for ICCF as its some kind of CCRL with human operators. Conjecture about Rybka 3 based on other engines is useless. No need to lose sleep over it.

Not exactly.
I believe that many ICCF players use their brain.
part of them use their brain in a productive way and part of them use their brain in counter productive ways.

There were clearly cases when I played moves that were not suggested by the programs.

In big majority of the cases I do not do it but even one different move relative to the suggestion of the engine may change the result of the game.

Uri

When you say GM are those human GMs or ICCF operator titles? That guy looks funny claiming Bb7? when he played it himself (was someone holding a gun to his head). I will check properly later but g6 and Rxg7 look like human moves. The multiple draw/4 draw offers would also seem to suggest that the white player is not conversant with chess rules. What is the time limit in the game?

[Uri Blass]

I do not care for ICCF as its some kind of CCRL with human operators. Conjecture about Rybka 3 based on other engines is useless. No need to lose sleep over it.

Not exactly.
I believe that many ICCF players use their brain.
part of them use their brain in a productive way and part of them use their brain in counter productive ways.

There were clearly cases when I played moves that were not suggested by the programs.

In big majority of the cases I do not do it but even one different move relative to the suggestion of the engine may change the result of the game.

Uri

When you say GM are those human GMs or ICCF operator titles? That guy looks funny claiming Bb7? when he played it himself (was someone holding a gun to his head). I will check properly later but g6 and Rxg7 look like human moves. The multiple draw/4 draw offers would also seem to suggest that the white player is not conversant with chess rules. What is the time limit in the game?

Black is a GM in correspondence chess and also Interational master in OTB chess.

I see nothing funny with the fact that people criticize mistakes that they made.

He admit that a move that he played was a mistake.
Fritz10 plays g6 based on Peter Coleman.

""19.g6 is also a human move". Possibly not. Fritz 10 has this as its first choice (at least in a superficial look). Indeed Your opponent and Fritz10 (low-ply, but Fritz doesn't change its mind very often) seem to agree a lot. Including on what comes top of the list at move 34. 67.Re8+ also came up on its radar fairly rapidly."


The time limit of correspondence tournaments is 50 days/10 moves
when the players need to play many games at the same time so they practically cannot use more than some hours of computer time per move.

Uri

[dufekj]

...cannot use more than some hours of computer time per move.

Uri[/quote]

This is the oldest and the worst possibility how to play correspondence games. Only wasting time (at the end for both sides). Horizont effect still exist.