Dell Computer Problem

[brianr]

As an alternative, I would like to suggest my recent experience.

I got a Q6600, 4GB, 300GB drive on eBay for about $800 with shipping. Note that this is without a monitor, but I have several of those around anyway. It is a G0 stepping model CPU, so it overclocks quite well.
(Note that there may be better low cost options now than the Q6600, see
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... q9300.html

Even for an over clocking newbie like me, with the standard motherboard utility (Gigabyte) 20% overclocking is a no brainer.

More importantly, it came with Windows Vista, both 32 and 64 bit. Like many, I had been very leary of using Vista having used XP (32 and 64 bit) for years. After getting used to 32 bit vista, I did the upgrade to x64. Everything seems to work just fine, after downloading a few 64 bit utilities. The only thing I have not found just yet is Quicktime for x64, but that is minor.

I upgraded the RAM to 8GB and with 4 CPUs it is a very useful system.
For instance, I can test Tinker in gauntlet matches with 16 other engines for 1,600 games in a day or so (20 Nunn2 plus 30 Noomen is 50 positions, x2 sides x 16 opponents is 1,600 games at level 0 1 2). I run four copies of the test with different portions of the starting positions at the same time (no pondering). For testing like this I don't even bother with the over clocking.

Along the way I downloaded the free Visual Studio C++ Express Edition and the Microsoft SDK and have figured out how to do both 32 and 64 bit compiles.

Yes, Vista is somewhat annoying (UAC and stuff), but it has been quite solid. It does consume a lot of resources, so the roughly $80 bump to add another 4GB was very helpful to easily load and use 8 engines at once.

[Nid Hogge]

Hi Nid,

Wow! I believe that you know computer hardware and software intimately well. But, I respectfully take issue with the epithet "confused". I'm not confused. Instead, I'm a computer dummy - I'm ignorant. I know chess, but just don't know computers.

Hi Stephen,

Don't feel to bad about it, there's much more interesting things than this one could follow. I'd gladly trade all my hardware knowledge for your chess knowledge .

I think Dell's advertising is deceptive and thus possibly illegal (e.g. false advertising). When a company advertises a widget with XYZ specs, then one assumes that when they buy that widget, it works in accordance with what's advertised. I bought a computer that's advertised to be a 64-bit dual core. But, the 32-bit OS (this was never mentioned) that came with it prevents me from using the the 64-bit hardware. Also, I only have one cpu working for my Rybka as a result.

As stated, I wanted a dual core 64-bit PC because I want faster computer performance for my chess analyses (I'm a correspondence chess player). I already have Rybka 2.3.2a and know it's available in 64-bit. I've read where others claim significant performance enhancements from their Rybka when they upgraded to a multi-PC with 64-bits.

Well, yes, alot of theyr'e advertising is deceptive. that's why I always recommend not buying directly from them. they're here to make money, many times they offer seemingly good offers but when you dig into it you discover they combine it with subpar components.

That said, are the duals/quads/8-core PCs I'm meeting on the Playchess server largely using just 32-bit OSs? If not, then should I upgrade my dual-core to a 64-bit OS too? I only use my PC for chess analyses and for my Bookup database.

I imagine most of them use 64-bit OS. simply because they probably use 4GB or more of RAM. This is anothor area where Dell can deceive you - sell you a a system with 4GB RAM equipped with an 32-bit OS (32-bit OS can only use 3/3.5 GB of RAM). So, you must be caution and make sure that if your'e buying a system with 4GB of RAM(like the system they offered you), it will come with a 64-bit OS.

I didn't know that Dell and HP are crap and overpriced...until now. Where do you recommend I go, Nid, to build a "monster" PC for chess analyses that offers value for the money? Should I opt for 64-bits for my Rybka, or avoid it for the reasons you recommended?

Personally, I'd just opt to replace the whole system. changing to 64-bit on your current system will not give you the same speed boost you will get even with a 32-bit Quad.

Now if that's what you gonna do.. there will some glitches with a 64-bit OS, no doubt about that. You need to ask yourself if your willing to compromise with some driver tinkering and hardware incompatibilities for a nice speed boost. That's up to you i'm afraid and if you have the patience and if you're willing to deal with all that. It's matter of luck really in how many glitches you are going to encounted. far too many variables to know in advance.

Good luck,

[Stephen Ham]

Hi Nid,

Thanks again for your wise and thoughtful advice, Nid. since I'm a computer dummy, then you're correct to question whether I should deal with 64-bit driver issues.

That said, I should instead just purchase a good 32-bit quad to replace my present slow dual core.

Any recommendations where I should go to purchase a good quad, Nid? Any specs that you advise I should follow when building a quad for about $1200?

Thanks again in advance, Nid.

All the best,
Steve

[K I Hyams]

I imagine most of them use 64-bit OS. simply because they probably use 4GB or more of RAM. This is anothor area where Dell can deceive you - sell you a a system with 4GB RAM equipped with an 32-bit OS (32-bit OS can only use 3/3.5 GB of RAM). So, you must be caution and make sure that if your'e buying a system with 4GB of RAM(like the system they offered you), it will come with a 64-bit OS.
,

They do exactly the same in the UK. I salivate over the quads on the Dell site. Dell allow you to specify the components that they put in your system from a range that they offer on their website. You can currently specify up to 4GB memory. Next to the 4GB cards, they state:

"A Vista system with 4GB system memory will report max 3.5 GB available to the operating system."

That is the only clue that exists on the site that the operating system is not able to fully exploit the potential of the CPU. Very naughty.

[Stephen Ham]

Thank you, Brian. That was really helpful!

All the best,
Steve

[Stephen Ham]

I imagine most of them use 64-bit OS. simply because they probably use 4GB or more of RAM. This is anothor area where Dell can deceive you - sell you a a system with 4GB RAM equipped with an 32-bit OS (32-bit OS can only use 3/3.5 GB of RAM). So, you must be caution and make sure that if your'e buying a system with 4GB of RAM(like the system they offered you), it will come with a 64-bit OS.
,

They do exactly the same in the UK. I salivate over the quads on the Dell site. Dell allow you to specify the components that they put in your system from a range that they offer on their website. You can currently specify up to 4GB memory. Next to the 4GB cards, they state:

"A Vista system with 4GB system memory will report max 3.5 GB available to the operating system."

That is the only clue that exists on the site that the operating system is not able to fully exploit the potential of the CPU. Very naughty.

Hi Keith,

Well said! Too bad Dell doesn't also notify buyers of their 64-bit hardware that it won't work with the OS they package with it, since they don't tell the consumer that it's only 32-bits.

They are very naughty indeed...and possibly even illegal.

All the best,
Steve

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

I imagine most of them use 64-bit OS. simply because they probably use 4GB or more of RAM. This is anothor area where Dell can deceive you - sell you a a system with 4GB RAM equipped with an 32-bit OS (32-bit OS can only use 3/3.5 GB of RAM). So, you must be caution and make sure that if your'e buying a system with 4GB of RAM(like the system they offered you), it will come with a 64-bit OS.
,

They do exactly the same in the UK. I salivate over the quads on the Dell site. Dell allow you to specify the components that they put in your system from a range that they offer on their website. You can currently specify up to 4GB memory. Next to the 4GB cards, they state:

"A Vista system with 4GB system memory will report max 3.5 GB available to the operating system."

That is the only clue that exists on the site that the operating system is not able to fully exploit the potential of the CPU. Very naughty.

Hi Keith,
This I call a dirty marketing trick and unfortunately it's used not only in the computer hardware section,but everywhere you can imagine....

[K I Hyams]

I imagine most of them use 64-bit OS. simply because they probably use 4GB or more of RAM. This is anothor area where Dell can deceive you - sell you a a system with 4GB RAM equipped with an 32-bit OS (32-bit OS can only use 3/3.5 GB of RAM). So, you must be caution and make sure that if your'e buying a system with 4GB of RAM(like the system they offered you), it will come with a 64-bit OS.
,

They do exactly the same in the UK. I salivate over the quads on the Dell site. Dell allow you to specify the components that they put in your system from a range that they offer on their website. You can currently specify up to 4GB memory. Next to the 4GB cards, they state:

"A Vista system with 4GB system memory will report max 3.5 GB available to the operating system."

That is the only clue that exists on the site that the operating system is not able to fully exploit the potential of the CPU. Very naughty.

Hi Keith,
This I call a dirty marketing trick and unfortunately it's used not only in the computer hardware section,but everywhere you can imagine....

Hi Wael,
One would probably expect software availability to lag behind hardware availability. Google says that the first 32-bit CPU was the 80386, first seen in 1989. The first 32-bit Windows was Windows95, available 6 years later!!

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

I imagine most of them use 64-bit OS. simply because they probably use 4GB or more of RAM. This is anothor area where Dell can deceive you - sell you a a system with 4GB RAM equipped with an 32-bit OS (32-bit OS can only use 3/3.5 GB of RAM). So, you must be caution and make sure that if your'e buying a system with 4GB of RAM(like the system they offered you), it will come with a 64-bit OS.
,

They do exactly the same in the UK. I salivate over the quads on the Dell site. Dell allow you to specify the components that they put in your system from a range that they offer on their website. You can currently specify up to 4GB memory. Next to the 4GB cards, they state:

"A Vista system with 4GB system memory will report max 3.5 GB available to the operating system."

That is the only clue that exists on the site that the operating system is not able to fully exploit the potential of the CPU. Very naughty.

Hi Keith,
This I call a dirty marketing trick and unfortunately it's used not only in the computer hardware section,but everywhere you can imagine....

Hi Wael,
The intuitive idea that software availability will lag behind hardware availability is supported by the results of the Googling that I have just finished.

Google says that the first 32-bit CPU was the 80386, first seen in 1989. The first 32-bit Windows was Windows95, available 6 years later!!

Hehe,so they surpass the time with the hardware resourses and the poor users will have to wait for the software that can exploit it
It's a little bit twisted logic,don't you think

[jdart]

You can get multi-core support by running Window XP Professional, 32bit or 64bit. You can install Windows x64 to support native 64-bit apps, but as others have noted it is possible some of your hardware may not have 64 bit support.

I would recommend, though, that you consider a new machine with one of the newer Intel processors, which are beating AMD pretty badly now in terms of performance and are reasonably priced.

I recently put together a system with Intel Q6700 processor and ECS G33T-M2 motherboard. This is a low-end motherboard with built-in graphics (I don't need fancy graphics). It runs Windows x64 just fine, although it was a little scary when I put in the board's driver disk and the autorun program on the disk came up and said the OS wasn't supported. But then I explored around the disk and found the 64-bit drivers, and was able to install them.

Total cost was around $800 for board, CPU, RAM, OEM Windows license, and SATA disk and CDROM (this board only has 1 legacy IDE port, for a floppy drive). I re-used a case and power supply I had.