Time to upgrade your Chess Computer ... for $500

[Ross Boyd]

That's a very impressive benchmark - especially considering the modest financial outlay!

Regarding the thermal paste....

I build/repair PCs for a living so I'm happy to learn something new. I can see that Arctic's method would reduce the chance of trapped air between the cpu and cooler... whereas no matter how smooth and even you apply the paste with polystyrene you are always going to trap a little air...

thanks for the heads up.

Ross

[M ANSARI]

Yes it is impressive indeed. It beats my QX6700 running at 3.2 Ghz at Fritzmark by around 10% . Not sure why but could be a combination of a better chipset (P35) and faster FSB to reach the 3.2 Ghz. My QX6700 is being cooled by water ... so I was pretty amazed when the Q6600 ran at 3.4Ghz without any intervention other than increasing the FSB ... all on air. I would say this CPU could probably go to 3.6 to 3.8 Ghz if someone was really motivated to push it to its limit and used water cooling.

With regards to the application of thermal paste .... there are tons of ways to do it and if you go to one of the overclockers forums you can find huge threads discussing what is the best way. Some like to put just a spot in the middle and then twist the HS while pressing a little ... some like to put on plastic gloves and spread it with their finger ... and ofcourse how Arctic installation describes it. My experience is that by putting a line and letting it "spread out" does not cover some part of the heat spreader ... Arctic says that eventually after about 200 hours the stuff will find its way out due to vibration and heat. I have had great results with simply spreading it over the heat spreader and then running a triangular pre-cut plastic piece over it to remove excess. You really have to be careful with Arctic silver since unlike silicon based thermal paste ... it can actually conduct electricity. So you wouldn't want to have it accidentally applied on parts of the motherboard. To be honest I think eventually all reasonable applications will work well after the CPU has run for a while and the vibration of fan and the heat has allowed any microscopic gaps to be filled. But definetely if you put too much you can end up with an insulation effect ... but also too little is not good since microscopic air gaps also work as an insulator.

[Karmazen & Oliver]

very good post.

fantastic images.

maybe it´s for "hard" ware ... but it´s interesting.

I like my intel 820 D. 2048 MB, western digital 74 GB + western digital 150 GB + 320 WD caviar 16 MB + 320 WD caviar 16 MB + Plextor DVD-ram 740 A + plextor DVD- ram 750 + power supply silverstone 600 W... + MB ASUS p5wd2 Premium edition.

run in overclocking 3,5 Ghz... since default 820 D.

note: The best cooling FAN CPU is ZALMAN 9500 or ZALMAN 9700 ... ohter options permit a overclocking more down.

[Nid Hogge]

Very nice! Thanks for sharing.

Few quick comments:

1. You can get much better HSF's(Cooling) for lower prices than that TT.

Here is a chart that gives a better picture :


This is for X6800 but it shows what a good HSF and whats not.

Scythe Ninja
http://www.petrastechshop.com/scniplhecpuc.html
$36.99 at Petra's .. (Great shop BTW).

THERMALRIGHT ULTRA-90
http://www.svc.com/ultra-90-775.html
$19.99 only. comes with no fan but fans are dirty cheap this days.

Both better than the Orb and cheaper.

Also I don't think 3.2 on air is pushing it. Ive seen plenty of Q6600 owners with those aircoolers running 3.6 happily.. So I think you should get more even with the not so good Orb and for sure with a better HSF.

I would say this CPU could probably go to 3.6 to 3.8 Ghz if someone was really motivated to push it to its limit and used water cooling.

No need! Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme $54.99
http://www.petrastechshop.com/thulhecpucos.html

With this cooler you can run Q6600 at 3.8-4.0 Ghz easily and still to maintain really nice temps. This cooler is top notch above all the others.
Really worth the extra $ if you want to go high end with no need of water.

Now, If you plan to use that system for a while and you want it to be future proof, there's really no reason why you shouldn't spend 10-15$ more to get the best of the best.

2. For the thermal paste I'd go with the MX-2 or the MX-1.
MX-2 is already better AS5 and is dirt cheap and burns faster.
It's usually 2-3 C degrees lower than AS5. It's also non conductive so no worries if it gets to a place it shouldn't

Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound
http://www.petrastechshop.com/arcomxthco.html
$5.99

I Spread it with a those transparent plastic bags and using my finger. as thin as possible always.

3. Even if running only at 3.2, if you encounter any stabilties issues or random shut down its better to increase Vcore a little bit in case the CPU doesnt get enough voltage to run.

4. As you already mentioned, there is no use to get 4GB RAM if your getting Vista\XP 32bit. The OS must be 64bit to be able to use more 4GB or more.(Besides always a nice speed up with 64 bit Chess progs).

In any case, You are very right, really good time to upgrade now with this insane Quad prices. plus these boards support future 45nm CPU's and this means you can get great performance for really cheap. and theyre very good ocer's too

[M ANSARI]

Hi Nid thanks for the comprehensive information of air cooling HSF. Lot of choices indeed !!! Personally I like the Blu ORB because it is very very quiet. That was also a concern for my brother. Also he did not want to overclock his CPU since for him it wouldn't have made much difference ... so as far as I am concerned the 3.2Ghz figure is getting the CPU to its original speed since it was under-clocked at 2.4Ghz I didn't want to add any voltage and wanted to keep the system in spec ... although I think that some motherboards automatically overvolt a little. With the new P35 motherboards you can take your memory as high as 400 Mhz and still be in spec. This sort of FSB change happens every once in a while ... I remember the old Celeron 300A's where you simply changed your FSB from 66Mhz to 100Mhz and had a dramatically faster processor ... today we have 1066 Mhz CPU's and the new 1333 Mhz CPU's ... so we have the same situation.

Now for Chess obviously there would be some changes. In Chess speed and memory latency is everything. I myself have not used air cooling for the last 5 years. I only use water-cooling ... I think it is the proper way to cool the CPU and it is extremely quiet. Most people think that it is dangerous to have water and electronics together ... but really with today's kits things are much more simple than before. Also for Chess ... 64bit is a must ... especially if you run Rybka as an engine. And Win 32bit will show 4GB as 3.5GB ... so it won't use all the RAM ... or at least it doesn't show it. XP 64bit this limit is gone.

The Q6600 really is wolf in sheep's clothing ... especially the SLACR G0 steppings. I have tried 4 of the cpu's on different systems and ever single one of them was able to go to 3.6 Ghz 100% stable. I have a feeling that inside there is not much difference between a QX6850 and a Q6600 G0 ... only the multiplier lock. I have just received my QX6850 and will test it to see ... but that one will go on a Vapochill LS. I will post to see how things go with that overclock. You can bet that I will try to max it out to the limit on that one!

[mongrel]

Thanks for the great post!
I'm tempted.

Were the four holes for the heatsink already present in the motherboard?

[mongrel]

This reply is to Nid, regarding heat sinks.
Your chart is interesting, but I would also prefer something very quiet. Is a corresponding chart of noise specs too much to ask?

Would you point me to your favorite forum or other source for information on this subject? (This question is for the original poster also.)
Thanks.

[Nid Hogge]

Hi Majd, Yes ofcourse! for your brother this should be bvery well enough, let alone to risk it with higer requencies and voltage. But a very nice build indeed.

Now for Chess obviously there would be some changes. In Chess speed and memory latency is everything. I myself have not used air cooling for the last 5 years. I only use water-cooling ... I think it is the proper way to cool the CPU and it is extremely quiet. Most people think that it is dangerous to have water and electronics together ... but really with today's kits things are much more simple than before. Also for Chess ... 64bit is a must ... especially if you run Rybka as an engine. And Win 32bit will show 4GB as 3.5GB ... so it won't use all the RAM ... or at least it doesn't show it. XP 64bit this limit is gone.

Yes I wish I could afford a decent W\C system. The problem is that the prices outside the U.S are very high and there is nothing in the local shops. Ordering from the U.S and then dealing with shipping already makes the whole cose very high. But I plan to get one someday, Maybe ill start with the new Swiftech compact kits im really inlove with it's simplicity and relative good performance(in comparison to the uselss *rappy TT/CM kits )

The Q6600 really is wolf in sheep's clothing ... especially the SLACR G0 steppings. I have tried 4 of the cpu's on different systems and ever single one of them was able to go to 3.6 Ghz 100% stable. I have a feeling that inside there is not much difference between a QX6850 and a Q6600 G0 ... only the multiplier lock. I have just received my QX6850 and will test it to see ... but that one will go on a Vapochill LS. I will post to see how things go with that overclock. You can bet that I will try to max it out to the limit on that one!

Fully agree. awesome performance/price. And I believe theyre 100% identical 'cept the multi lock. it could help OCing a bit but they are already great OCers at 2.4Ghz even when they are locked. And you can get 1.0+ Ghz for free.
The Vapochill's are a beast! But you should check the posts on XS and other websites .. It says that it couldnt cope with the quads! they really put out much heat and watt. I think that there's modded Vapochills that are designed to deal with them .. with better evaps and such. Good luck anyhow!!

[Nid Hogge]

This reply is to Nid, regarding heat sinks.
Your chart is interesting, but I would also prefer something very quiet. Is a corresponding chart of noise specs too much to ask?

Hi,

No problem. Here are the noise levels from the same chart I posted above :

(Lower is better ofcourse).




http://anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/sh ... i=3068&p=5

Here's another one that comapres performance and noise levels for other super coolers :



http://xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/di ... html#sect0

Please note that some coolers(TR U120 Extreme..) does not come with a fan. you have to purchase them seperatley.(They are very cheap).
So you have alot of choices between different fans and diff. noise levels.
I like the Scythe S-Flex series as they give good performance(CFM) for relative low noise. Panaflo's are nice too.

Would you point me to your favorite forum or other source for information on this subject? (This question is for the original poster also.)
Thanks

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum (Probably the best but not exactly for newbies).
http://www.overclock.net (more suited for new comers).

Info/Reviews:
http://www.anandtech.com
http://www.xbitlabs.com
http://www.dailytech.com

Theres many more .. Google hardware news..

[M ANSARI]

Nice comprehensive list of different HSF's. Personally I think ANY watercooling setup will outperform any of the mentioned HSF's in temperature drops and in sound levels. In Kuwait I also have a problem finding decent water-cooling kits. I did manage to find one Gigabyte kit that was around $120 and I stuck it on my QX6700. I must say it works quite well and is very simple to install. But let's make no mistake about it ... the pump is designed for an aquarium ... and probably go bust after some time ... which is why I have ordered a couple of spare Swiftech pumps. I also have ordered the Swiftech Apex kit which is probably the best kit around. As for the Vapochill .... the new G0 steppings have a much lower thermal envelope and should be OK with the 200 watt LS unit ... it should get me to 4.5 Ghz or more on a QX6850.

By the way if you want to try something interesting ... check this unit out ... it uses a combination of Peltier and Water Cooling ... all in a closed loop. Sounds very interesting ... though expensive.

http://www.xoxide.com/coolit-systems-te ... oling.html


If you live in S. Korea and you want a good Vapochill type system ... check out Coolerexpress ... they have nice Vapo units for less than $500 ... I didn't order mine from there because the shipping cost was 100% of the cost of the unit ... but for you it might be much cheaper since they are in Taiwan.

http://www.coolerexpress.org/en-index.htm