Open Letter & $100,000 challenge to FIDE

[Steve B]

>>>i will say this much about Rajlich's calling of the "party faithful" to arms >>>>on his financial behalf

Steve, I am not sure this is entirely fair. Why can't people be enthusiastic about an engine, and not be labeled as "party faithful" (which implies a kind of brainwashed obedience).

I think talented programers should be rewarded, in order to continue to motivate them to create better software. Vas has created the best chess engine for analysis, in my view, and he should at least be given a chance to prove it.



best
joseph

actually why even Ralijch would go after Ilyumzhinov's Corrupt money to begin with is somewhat telling i think(the $100,000 purse has been put up in part by his exalted greatness himself i believe)

the organization is nothing as it once was and many honorable GM's today will have nothing to do with it in its present sad state

would he compete for a 100,000 prize fund offered by the Mafia as well ??

Lets Draw The Line Somewhere for gods sake regards
Steve

[K I Hyams]

Hi,

I'm making a $100,000 challenge (together with an open letter) to FIDE, for a match between Rybka and the winner of FIDE's upcoming 'Ultimate Computer Chess Challenge 2007'.

More info is here:

http://www.rybkachess.com/docs/ChallengeToFIDE.htm

If anybody could help me to spread this to other chess news channels, that would be great.

Vas

ps. Good luck to the freestylers this weekend

Vas,
You haven't quite got the hang of this. If you want them to take you on, you need to tell them how badly Rybka plays, not how well it plays!!

In the extremely unlikely event of them showing any interest under the conditions that you have set, perhaps you could try to increase the stake money so that we can all add our investments to this.
Regards
Keith.

[Uri Blass]

Imagine if he IS putting the $100,000 on the table from his own bank account. That takes nerve, and it adds to the drama. I really believe it could get a ton of publicity and that it might even upstage the championship match as people finally realized that the quality of the computer games considerably surpassed those of the human games. But in my judgment Chessbase will never accept this challenge as it doesn't make business sense to lose such a match. They have much more to lose than to gain, while Rajlich has much more to gain than to lose.

It's an interesting bet, but I don't think Vas is risking much. One, the probability that FIDE accepts is very low; two, if they do accept, it's more than likely Rybka would win. So I would put the actual risk to Vas of losing money at less than 5%. That's a good bet, even if he doesn't have the money! (They would obviously require a performance bond prior to the match.)

It's also a very good attempt to torpedo the Chessbase match. It'll depend on how widely his letter gets distributed.

Will

i wonder if this whole thread is a charter violation actually

is it not merely a disguised Commercial exhortation??

Hmmm Regards
Steve

Even assuming that it is commercial exhoration(and the moderators do not think like that)
I wonder what is your problem with commercial exhortation.

It is against the charter but it can also cause ignorance.
Not allowing commercial exhortation means not knowing information.

People who read this site may miss information that program X is commercial because if the programmer tell us about it then it is commercial exhortation even if he gives no link because people can use google to find a link.

I plan to respect the charter that forbids commercial exhortation
but I do not plan to complain about a post that gives new information
even if it is against the charter because of commercial exhortation.

Uri

[Rémi Coulom]

Hi,

I'm making a $100,000 challenge (together with an open letter) to FIDE, for a match between Rybka and the winner of FIDE's upcoming 'Ultimate Computer Chess Challenge 2007'.

More info is here:

http://www.rybkachess.com/docs/ChallengeToFIDE.htm

If anybody could help me to spread this to other chess news channels, that would be great.

Vas

ps. Good luck to the freestylers this weekend

Hi,

I am impressed by the FIDE! So, this is the reason why Junior is not defending its title? Maybe the ICGA is not that bad, after all.

Note also that your link to the WCCC 2006 is broken (there must be a psychological theory for that). Here is one that works and looks better:
http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/t ... .php?id=16

Your challenge probably won't make it to ChessBase news, but I wish you good luck.

Rémi

[Terry McCracken]

>>>i will say this much about Rajlich's calling of the "party faithful" to arms >>>>on his financial behalf

Steve, I am not sure this is entirely fair. Why can't people be enthusiastic about an engine, and not be labeled as "party faithful" (which implies a kind of brainwashed obedience).

I think talented programers should be rewarded, in order to continue to motivate them to create better software. Vas has created the best chess engine for analysis, in my view, and he should at least be given a chance to prove it.



best
joseph

actually why even Ralijch would go after Ilyumzhinov's Corrupt money to begin with is somewhat telling i think(the $100,000 purse has been put up in part by his exalted greatness himself i believe)

the organization is nothing as it once was and many honorable GM's today will have nothing to do with it in its present sad state

would he compete for a 100,000 prize fund offered by the Mafia as well ??

Lets Draw The Line Somewhere for gods sake regards
Steve

I think you're being a little hard on the man. Most GM's put up with the FIDE even in it's present state as they need the money etc.

Terry

[Terry McCracken]

actually Charles this has happened before and will again i suppose

in 2001 there was an event called the Kramnik Challenge
the idea was to pit the best human against the best Pc Engine
it was sponsored by Brain-Games(a private company no longer in existence)
as it turned out the then Reigning computer world champion program Shredder was not even given fair notice of the qualifying event and only Fritz and Junior competed against each other to play Kramink
i think the prize found was something in the neighborhood of 1 million dollars

both Fritz and Junior were chessbase engines while Shredder at that time was not

Tiger was also a very powerful leading engine at the time and also was not even given an invitation to compete

then and now it is all about the money and fairness and sportsmanship have nothing to do with it

the only difference is i dont recall Stefan -Meyer Kahlen actually coming here (or rather the old CCC forum) and asking for the members to carry the torch for him

but i see i have to drop this because i am only going to come up against Rybka fans and loyalists who will defend their engine hero no matter what he does or says

at least while he remains the top engine of course

Adulation of the Magi Regards
Steve

I understand Steve, but I think Vas wasn't overstepping his privledges with his announcement.

Terry

i will say this much about Rajlich's calling of the "party faithful" to arms on his financial behalf

he is brave

others who have publicly challenged Ilyumzhinov and his corrupt Fide have wound up dead

Larisa Yudina Sends her regards from the Grave
Steve

Indeed! I don't disagree.

Terry

[Steve B]

actually Charles this has happened before and will again i suppose

in 2001 there was an event called the Kramnik Challenge
the idea was to pit the best human against the best Pc Engine
it was sponsored by Brain-Games(a private company no longer in existence)
as it turned out the then Reigning computer world champion program Shredder was not even given fair notice of the qualifying event and only Fritz and Junior competed against each other to play Kramink
i think the prize found was something in the neighborhood of 1 million dollars

both Fritz and Junior were chessbase engines while Shredder at that time was not

Tiger was also a very powerful leading engine at the time and also was not even given an invitation to compete

then and now it is all about the money and fairness and sportsmanship have nothing to do with it

the only difference is i dont recall Stefan -Meyer Kahlen actually coming here (or rather the old CCC forum) and asking for the members to carry the torch for him

but i see i have to drop this because i am only going to come up against Rybka fans and loyalists who will defend their engine hero no matter what he does or says

at least while he remains the top engine of course

Adulation of the Magi Regards
Steve

There is a difference.
At that time shredder was not clearly the best engine and tiger did not support more than one processor.

Uri

Shredder at that time was the Computer World Champion
Kramnik was the Human World Champion
the match was initially supposed to be the two world champions against each other
then suddenly it got changed and there was to be a "qualifying round "to be played by the computers to earn the right to play Kramnik
Shredder was made aware of this only two weeks before the Qualifier and he would not take part because of it leaving only the Chessbase engines(the only three Engines "invited" to the qualifier were Shredder Fritz and Junior)

Stefan also wrote an "open' letter protesting all of it

my point is simply..he did not use the CCC overtly and directly to further what would have been a significant financial interest for him
Steve

[Steve B]

Imagine if he IS putting the $100,000 on the table from his own bank account. That takes nerve, and it adds to the drama. I really believe it could get a ton of publicity and that it might even upstage the championship match as people finally realized that the quality of the computer games considerably surpassed those of the human games. But in my judgment Chessbase will never accept this challenge as it doesn't make business sense to lose such a match. They have much more to lose than to gain, while Rajlich has much more to gain than to lose.

It's an interesting bet, but I don't think Vas is risking much. One, the probability that FIDE accepts is very low; two, if they do accept, it's more than likely Rybka would win. So I would put the actual risk to Vas of losing money at less than 5%. That's a good bet, even if he doesn't have the money! (They would obviously require a performance bond prior to the match.)

It's also a very good attempt to torpedo the Chessbase match. It'll depend on how widely his letter gets distributed.

Will

i wonder if this whole thread is a charter violation actually

is it not merely a disguised Commercial exhortation??

Hmmm Regards
Steve

Even assuming that it is commercial exhoration(and the moderators do not think like that)
I wonder what is your problem with commercial exhortation.

It is against the charter but it can also cause ignorance.
Not allowing commercial exhortation means not knowing information.

People who read this site may miss information that program X is commercial because if the programmer tell us about it then it is commercial exhortation even if he gives no link because people can use google to find a link.

I plan to respect the charter that forbids commercial exhortation
but I do not plan to complain about a post that gives new information
even if it is against the charter because of commercial exhortation.

Uri

i am against ALL commercial exhortations because it is against the charter even if some of them also give some additional information and to allow them will only turn this place into a meat martket with ads all day long

the charter has worked well for almost 10 years
the odd commercial exhortation that also provides information simply cannot be allowed because then the more common commercial exhortation that provides no information will soon also be allowed and that will turn this place into a meat market

one can always try to show in any commercial exhortation that some new information is included and it then becomes impossible to manage

the charter does not mention
all commercial exhortations are allowed IF they can also tell us a little something we did not know before
Steve

[Graham Banks]

i am against ALL commercial exhortations because it is against the charter even if some of them also give some additional information and to allow them will only turn this place into a meat martket with ads all day long

the charter has worked well for almost 10 years
the odd commercial exhortation that also provides information simply cannot be allowed because then the more common commercial exhortation that provides no information will soon also be allowed and that will turn this place into a meat market

one can always try to show in any commercial exhortation that some new information is included and it then becomes impossible to manage

the charter does not mention
all commercial exhortations are allowed IF they can also tell us a little something we did not know before
Steve

The fact remains that you're the only one to date who sees this post as commercial exhortation.
Under your definition, we'd only ever hear about amateur engines and dedicateds here.

I'm sorry, but this is the computer chess club where all engines (including commercials) should be able to be discussed.
This includes Rybka as well as others - Fritz, Shredder, Hiarcs, Tiger et al.

I certainly know that I like to be kept in touch with the developments of the commercial engines - when they're coming up for release, when they're released, where the website is, praise and criticism, etc.
What good is a computer chess club for if we can't have all this information at our disposal and can't discuss them?

Likewise I see this as a place where members can seek help from each other with any problems they're having with their chess software, just as some share information about fixing problems with their dedicateds.

Regards, Graham.

[Alkelele]

Graham, alternatively, you and the mods could take Steve on his word and go the full distance: Any mentioning of dedicateds is to be disallowed since it is commercial exhortation from people selling dedicateds on Ebay.

I don't know the history about the charter, but I would always think that the reasoning behind such a rule is that people wanted to give the mods a tool to step in if somebody spammed the forum with repetitive and worthless (to the community) attempts to attract attention to their product (and one could add: "product" could also be understood as an extreme minority interest).

IMHO, it is a joke that so much space in this forum is spent on pointless meta-discussions (and now, also this post...). Why not just discuss the subject at hand?