Three Test Positions

[Marc MP]

[D]r4rk1/pp1n1pbp/3Q2p1/q3P3/5P2/2N5/PP4PP/R1B1K2R b KQ -

id "Chiyanovsky-Gufeld (Moscow) 1966";

[D]r1b2rk1/1p1nbp2/p2pp1pQ/q5P1/3NP3/1nN1B3/PPP4P/R4RK1 w - -

id "Krason-Gromek (Polska) 1979";

[D]r1b1kb1r/1p4pp/p2ppn2/8/2qNP3/2N1B3/PPP3PP/R2Q1RK1 w kq -

id "Lasker-Pirc (Moscow) 1935";

[Eelco de Groot]

Hello Marc,

The first one does not seem very difficult? Toga 1.3 Blueberry "Checkov" finds 1. ... Nxe5 it in two ply

[D]r4rk1/pp1n1pbp/3Q2p1/q3P3/5P2/2N5/PP4PP/R1B1K2R b KQ -

Engine: Toga 1.3 Blueberry "Checkov" (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB)
gemaakt door Thomas Gaksch en Fabien Letouzey

1/02 0:00 -9.65 1...Da3 2.Dxa3 (5)

1/02 0:00 -9.51 1...Da4 2.Pxa4 (7)

1/03 0:00 -2.83 1...Dc5 2.Dxd7 (16)

1/03 0:00 -0.25 1...Dd8 (31)

1/08 0:00 +0.17 1...Pc5 (56)

1/08 0:00 +0.20 1...Tad8 (198)

1/08 0:00 +0.27 1...Tfd8 (205)

2/10 0:00 -0.61 1...Tfd8 2.O-O (552)

2/14 0:00 -0.29 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 (1.335)

3/14 0:00 -0.23 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tfe8 (5.068)

4/16 0:00 +0.15 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 (9.160)

5/18 0:00 +0.41 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.De3 Tfe8 (19.245)

6/20 0:00 +0.29 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Lxc3+ 5.Dxc3 Tfe8+ 6.Kf2 Dd5 (42.475)

7/22 0:00 +0.50 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Dc4 Ld4 5.Lf4 Tfe8+ 6.Kf1 (109.961)

8/26 0:00 +0.38 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Lxc3+ 5.bxc3 Dc5 6.Lh6 Tfe8+
7.Kf1 Td5 (259.238)

9/30 0:00 +0.53 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Db6 5.Kf1 Lxc3 6.bxc3 Tfe8
7.Lh6 (614.057)

10/34 0:01 +0.58 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Db6 5.Kf1 Ld4 6.Pe4 Tfe8 7.De2 (1.247.029) 750

11/36 0:03 +0.74 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Ld4 5.g4 Tfe8+ 6.Kf1 Lxc3
7.bxc3 Db5+ 8.Kg1 Te1+ 9.Kf2 Te5 (2.770.689) 763

12/40 0:07 +0.68 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Ld4 5.g3 Tfe8+ 6.Kf1 Da6+
7.Kg2 Lxc3 8.bxc3 Te2+ 9.Kh3 De6+
10.Dg4 De5 (5.511.872) 770

13/44 0:15 +0.67 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Ld4 5.g3 Tfe8+ 6.Kf1 Da6+
7.Kg2 Lxc3 8.bxc3 Td3 9.Df1 Dc6+
10.Kg1 Db6+ 11.Kg2 Txc3 (12.196.620) 761

14/48 0:37 +0.71 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Ld4 5.g3 Tfe8+ 6.Kf1 Lxc3
7.bxc3 Da6+ 8.Kg2 Te2+ 9.Kh3 h5
10.Tb1 De6+ 11.Kh4 De7+ 12.Lg5 (29.257.875) 771

15/54 1:34 +1.69++ 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Lxc3+ 5.bxc3 Tfe8+ 6.Kf2 Dc5+
7.Kg3 Dc4 8.Le3 Txe3 9.Dxe3 Td3
10.Tae1 Txc3 11.a3 f5 12.Kf2 Txe3
13.Txe3 (71.595.060) 759

16/55 2:28 +1.73 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Lxc3+ 5.bxc3 Tfe8+ 6.Kf2 Dc5+
7.Kg3 Dc4 8.Le3 Txe3 9.Dxe3 Td3
10.The1 Dxc3 11.Dxd3 Dxd3+ 12.Kf2 Dc2+
13.Kg3 Dc7+ 14.Kh3 Dc3+ (111.858.018) 755

17/64 5:32 +1.74 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Lxc3+ 5.bxc3 Tfe8+ 6.Kf2 Dc5+
7.Kg3 Dc4 8.Le3 Txe3 9.Dxe3 Td3
10.The1 Dxc3 11.Dxd3 Dxd3+ 12.Kf2 Dd4+
13.Kf1 Df6+ 14.Kg1 Db6+ (251.476.253) 756

18/64 13:36 +1.73 1...Pxe5 2.fxe5 Lxe5 3.Dd3 Tad8
4.Df3 Lxc3+ 5.bxc3 Tfe8+ 6.Kf2 Dc5+
7.Kg3 Dc4 8.Le3 Txe3 9.Dxe3 Td3
10.The1 Dxc3 11.Dxd3 Dxd3+ 12.Kf2 Dd4+
13.Kg3 Dd6+ 14.Kh3 Dd3+ (592.060.269) 724

Chessbase spells the name of the white player a bit differently but I think this was the game:

[Event "URS-chT"]
[Site "Moscow"]
[Date "1966.09.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Shianovsky,Vladislav I"]
[Black "Gufeld,Eduard"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "B36"]
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.c4 Nf6 6.Nc3 Nxd4 7.Qxd4 g6 8.c5 Bg7
9.Bb5+ Bd7 10.cxd6 0-0 11.e5 Bxb5 12.Nxb5 Nd7 13.f4 Qa5+ 14.Nc3 exd6 15.Qxd6 Nxe5 16.fxe5 Bxe5
17.Qd3 Rad8 18.Qf3 Bd4 19.g3 Rfe8+ 20.Kf1 Bxc3 21.bxc3 Qb5+ 22.Kf2 Rd3 23.Qf6 Re2+ 0-1

[Chris Taylor]

[quote="Marc MP"][D]r4rk1/pp1n1pbp/3Q2p1/q3P3/5P2/2N5/PP4PP/R1B1K2R b KQ -

id "Chiyanovsky-Gufeld (Moscow) 1966";

[D]r1b2rk1/1p1nbp2/p2pp1pQ/q5P1/3NP3/1nN1B3/PPP4P/R4RK1 w - -

id "Krason-Gromek (Polska) 1979";

[D]r1b1kb1r/1p4pp/p2ppn2/8/2qNP3/2N1B3/PPP3PP/R2Q1RK1 w kq -

id "Lasker-Pirc (Moscow) 1935";[/quote]

Hi Marc

New game AMD 3200
r4rk1/pp1n1pbp/3Q2p1/q3P3/5P2/2N5/PP4PP/R1B1K2R b KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Pro Deo 1.2++:

1...Nxe5 2.fxe5 Bxe5 3.Qd3 Rad8 4.Qf3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 Rfe8+ 6.Kf2 Qc5+ 7.Kg3 Qc4 8.Be3 Rxe3 9.Qxe3 Rd3 10.Rhe1 Qxc3 11.Qxd3
² (0.66) Depth: 9 00:00:02 1444kN
µ (-0.94) Depth: 14 00:02:10 165mN

(Taylor, 01.05.2007)

New game
r1b2rk1/1p1nbp2/p2pp1pQ/q5P1/3NP3/1nN1B3/PPP4P/R4RK1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Pro Deo 1.2++:

1.Nd5 exd5 2.axb3 Qxa1 3.Rxa1 Ne5 4.exd5 Ng4 5.Qh3 Bd7 6.Bd2 Rfe8 7.Rf1 Nf6
± (0.99) Depth: 13 00:01:05 76637kN
+- (2.32) Depth: 14 00:01:45 129mN

(Taylor, 01.05.2007)

New game
r1b1kb1r/1p4pp/p2ppn2/8/2qNP3/2N1B3/PPP3PP/R2Q1RK1 w kq - 0 1

Analysis by Pro Deo 1.2++:

1.Rxf6 gxf6 2.Qh5+ Kd8 3.Qf7 Bh6 4.Qxf6+ Kc7 5.Bxh6 Bd7 6.Rd1 Rac8 7.Qe7 Rcd8 8.Bg5 e5 9.Nf5
² (0.30) Depth: 11 00:00:20 19004kN
+- (3.76) Depth: 14 00:02:49 195mN

(Taylor, 01.05.2007)

Prodeo 1.2++ Is a modified engine, to be releaed if stronger than the default.

Chris

[Marc MP]

Hi Eelco,

Had I known you were to use Toga-Checkov, I would have put something more difficult of course! Strangely the position seems very easy for some engine (i.e. Rybka beta, Toga Checkov), very difficult for others (Spike 1.2) and somewhat inbetween for Chess Tiger 2007.1:


Analysis by Rybka Beta 1.0:

00:00.0 -0,58 3 335 Nc5
00:00.0 -0,57 3 605 Nxe5
00:00.1 -0,12 4 1324 Nxe5
00:00.1 -0,54 5 3058 Nxe5 fxe5
00:00.2 -0,36 6 9195 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd1
00:00.6 -0,29 7 23254 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd1 Rad8
00:01.5 -0,11 8 58489 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd3 Rad8 Qf3
00:03.0 -0,35 9 122461 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd3 Rad8 Qf3 Bd4
00:05.7 -0,16 10 251820 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd3 Rad8 Qf3 Qb6 g3
00:11.4 0,05 11 506647 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd3 Rad8 Qf3 Bd4 g3 Rfe8+ Kf1
00:20.4 0,05 12 947919 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd3 Rad8 Qf3 Bd4 g3 Rfe8+ Kf1
00:36.0 0,28 13 1758564 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd3 Rad8 Qf3 Bd4 g3 Rfe8+ Kf1
02:28.7 1,94 14 7239752 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd3 Rad8 Qf3 Bxc3+ bxc3 Rfe8+ Kf2



Analysis by Chess Tiger 2007.1:

00:30.9 -0,17 18 Rfd8 b4 Qb6 Qxb6 Nxb6 O-O f6 f5 fxe5 Bg5 Rd3 Ne4 h6 Nc5 Rc3 Rac1 Ra3 Bh4
00:46.3 -0,18 19 Rfd8 b4 Qb6 Qxb6 Nxb6 O-O f6 f5 fxe5 Bg5 Rd3 Ne4 Rd4 Nf6+ Bxf6 Bxf6 Rxb4 fxg6 hxg6 Bxe5 Re4
01:14.3 -0,05 19 Rad8 b4 Qb6 Qxb6 Nxb6 O-O f6 e6 Rd3 Nb5 f5 Rb1 Re8 Re1 a6 Na3 Bc3 Re2 Nd5
02:05.4 0,73 19 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd3 Rad8 Qf3 Bxc3+ bxc3 Rfe8+ Kf2 Qc5+ Kg3 Qc4 Be3 Rxe3 Qxe3 Rd3
04:25.2 1,90 19 178242040 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd3 Rad8 Qf3 Bxc3+ bxc3 Rfe8+ Kf2 Qc5+ Kg3 Qc4 Be3 Rxe3 Qxe3 Rd3



Analysis by Spike 1.2 Turin:

00:48.8 -0,40 15 Rfd8 b4 Qb6 Qxb6 Nxb6 O-O Rac8 Ne4 Nd5 a3 Rc4 Re1 Bf8 Bd2 Rdc8 Nd6 Bxd6 exd6
01:18.0 -0,40 15 Rfd8 b4 Qb6 Qxb6 Nxb6 O-O Rac8 Ne4 Nd5 a3 Rc4 Re1 Bf8 Bd2 Rdc8 Nd6 Bxd6 exd6
01:43.6 -0,19 16 Rfd8 b4 Qb6 Qxb6 Nxb6 O-O Rac8 Ne4 Rd4 Nc5 Nd5 Nxb7 Rxb4 Nd6 Rc2 a3 Rd4
02:59.1 -0,19 16 Rfd8 b4 Qb6 Qxb6 Nxb6 O-O Rac8 Ne4 Rd4 Nc5 Nd5 Nxb7 Rxb4 Nd6 Rc2 a3 Rd4
03:40.0 -0,37 17 Rfd8 b4 Qb6 Qxb6 Nxb6 O-O Rac8 Ne4 Rd4 Nc5 Nd5 Nxb7 Rxb4 Nd6 Rc2 g3 a5 Ba3
06:23.8 -0,37 17 Rfd8 b4 Qb6 Qxb6 Nxb6 O-O Rac8 Ne4 Rd4 Nc5 Nd5 Nxb7 Rxb4 Nd6 Rc2 g3 a5 Ba3
07:47.6 -0,36 18 Rfd8 b4 Qb6 Qxb6 Nxb6 O-O Rac8 Ne4 Rd4 Nc5 Nd5 Nxb7 Rxb4 Nd6 Rc2 g3 Rb6 Ba3 Ne3
14:37.5 -0,07 18 492648447 Nxe5 fxe5 Bxe5 Qd3 Bxc3+ bxc3 Rad8 Qf3 Rfe8+ Kf2 Qc5+ Kg3 Qc4

I stopped Spike after about half an hour, iteration depth=18 not being finished. These were on a pentium 2400, hash=512.

Chessbase spells the name of the white player a bit differently but I think this was the game:

Yes... I pick the position in a french book and they spell Gufeld=Goufeld and Shianovsky=Chiyanovsky. I forgot to correct the second one.

[Terry McCracken]

[D]r4rk1/pp1n1pbp/3Q2p1/q3P3/5P2/2N5/PP4PP/R1B1K2R b KQ -

id "Chiyanovsky-Gufeld (Moscow) 1966";

Best Move, using my Wetware is Nxe5!

[D]r1b2rk1/1p1nbp2/p2pp1pQ/q5P1/3NP3/1nN1B3/PPP4P/R4RK1 w - -

id "Krason-Gromek (Polska) 1979";

Again with no computer, I'd play Nxe6!!

[D]r1b1kb1r/1p4pp/p2ppn2/8/2qNP3/2N1B3/PPP3PP/R2Q1RK1 w kq -

id "Lasker-Pirc (Moscow) 1935";

Simply Rxf6!

Let the computers have fun finding some of these moves, especially in the second diagram, which has a clever followup after ....Qe5 Rf6!!

Terry

[Terry McCracken]

[D]r4rk1/pp1n1pbp/3Q2p1/q3P3/5P2/2N5/PP4PP/R1B1K2R b KQ -

id "Chiyanovsky-Gufeld (Moscow) 1966";

[D]r1b2rk1/1p1nbp2/p2pp1pQ/q5P1/3NP3/1nN1B3/PPP4P/R4RK1 w - -

id "Krason-Gromek (Polska) 1979";

[D]r1b1kb1r/1p4pp/p2ppn2/8/2qNP3/2N1B3/PPP3PP/R2Q1RK1 w kq -

id "Lasker-Pirc (Moscow) 1935";

I've noticed the last two diagrams haven't any computer analysis, well it's nice to know we humans are smarter than these dumb machines

Terry

[Slater]

I've noticed the last two diagrams haven't any computer analysis, well it's nice to know we humans are smarter than these dumb machines

Terry

Crafty solves the first 2 in under a minute. It solves the last one in under 9 minutes so I am confident it would play it in a real game.

[Cubeman]

Terry wrote I've noticed the last two diagrams haven't any computer analysis, well it's nice to know we humans are smarter than these dumb machines.
But Terry your analysis of the second position claiming that Nxe6 is the best move and plan to follow up Qe5 with Rf6!! does not lead to a clear win like 1 Nd5!!.After your suggested 1 Nxe6 Qe5,2 Rf6 Bxf6,3 gxf6 Qxf6, what is your best plan.My dumb computer says 4 Nxf8 Qg7,5 Qxg7+ Kxg7,6 axb3 Nxf8,7 Nb5 Bd7,8 Nxd6 with a small + for White of 0.99.
This pawn advantage is so insignificant with the opposite bishop minor piece endgame.So maybe the computer is dumb.
Whereas the 1 Nd5!! leads to a huge +4.50 for White.

[Terry McCracken]

Terry wrote I've noticed the last two diagrams haven't any computer analysis, well it's nice to know we humans are smarter than these dumb machines.
But Terry your analysis of the second position claiming that Nxe6 is the best move and plan to follow up Qe5 with Rf6!! does not lead to a clear win like 1 Nd5!!.After your suggested 1 Nxe6 Qe5,2 Rf6 Bxf6,3 gxf6 Qxf6, what is your best plan.My dumb computer says 4 Nxf8 Qg7,5 Qxg7+ Kxg7,6 axb3 Nxf8,7 Nb5 Bd7,8 Nxd6 with a small + for White of 0.99.
This pawn advantage is so insignificant with the opposite bishop minor piece endgame.So maybe the computer is dumb.
Whereas the 1 Nd5!! leads to a huge +4.50 for White.

Did I overlook Nd5? How fallible of me.

I only looked at the positions briefly, I'll take another look.

[Terry McCracken]

I've noticed the last two diagrams haven't any computer analysis, well it's nice to know we humans are smarter than these dumb machines

Terry

Crafty solves the first 2 in under a minute. It solves the last one in under 9 minutes so I am confident it would play it in a real game.

Well I got people finally responding with computer analysis, well up to a point, as there is little analysis posted with the exception of the first in a series of three

What did Crafty say?

Terry