Komodo 8 Announcement

[Frank Quisinsky]

That is absolutely OK.

If the programmer of Pharaon today will have 500 EUR for an old ZChess Version you can buy it or not.

That alone is the decision of the programmer!

Stockfish is Open Sourcen and free (not important how strong) and Komodo is Commercial available (not important how strong).

I wish me as customer that I get from time to time a free Version, means an free update available for all.

The Problem here:
We have a big Group of persons with waiting of cracks.
And we have a Little Group of persons with buy for it.

The Little Group of persons should get a bit more as the Group of persons with are waiting of cracks.

A lot of Komodo Versions are available. I believe each half year a new Commercial Version. OK, if so ... I have to life with it.

But I wish me a bit more Support as honest customer!
The honest customers are milked.
I found so many Software Projects the honest customers are rewards (Total Commander, Chiron ... and so on).

[Frank Quisinsky]

+1
and
+1
and
+1

You can see ... one good sentence and the World is OK for myself.
I must have it!

Please looking that Komodo is fast available!
So I can start with Komodo in FCT1.

Best
Frank

[lkaufman]

Stockfish $00.00

Komodo $80.00

Analyze that

This is not an accurate comparison. Komodo by itself (without a GUI, like Stockfish) is under $60, while the ChessBase version (which includes GUI, book, Playchess) is about $95. I don't know where you got the $80 price, but the proper figure for your comparison would be $60. In any case, for many people that difference is a lot and I expect they will just get Stockfish, while for many other people $60 is a small amount and they will get whichever engine they prefer, or more likely, both. I will the first to say, Stockfish is clearly underpriced at zero dollars!

[Sedat Canbaz]

Hi Sedat,

but what is to do ...
Blocked now Komodo too?
Normely no interest on it because Komodo was a flagship in the past. But go do a Company with selling clones and announcements in comparing with clones isn't in my interest!

On the other Hand: Junior, Zappa, Hiarcs, Shredder are available from ChessBase too. The Company try to make Profit only, that is OK ... not easy Situation. I can't understand that programmers build a Group for selling.

Bad is if clones are Commercial available.
Bad for the complete community.

And programmers can building a Group ...
We all know that if we are thinking on the bad open letters.

For myself clearer ... Komodo Team supported clones if I read the messages. Can't build an other opinion so far!

Not normely that the Team gave beta Version to People that have the complete Rating list full of clones and to compare results with clone software.

What do you do now?

Perhaps we should blocked such things too?
I have nothing again Komodo but the Publicity is bad and I have no longer interest to Support things around clones!

Give me a hint ...
Your opinion is important for myself!

At the moment the only clear commercial engine is Chiron.

Best
Frank

Dear Frank,

Thank you for the trust...and I trust you too!!

It is your decision...really I don't want to be the reason...

But anyway...I think there is one important point:
-If you will allow Komodo...you should allow Rybka too
-If you are blocking Rybka, you should block Komodo too
As I mentioned before,
I can't see any difference in originality between Rybka and Komodo (exception their Elo strength)

Otherwise...this will be a history mistake ! and there will be a big injustice and double standard by your side !!

BTW, here is my opinion about new commercial engine releases which are weaker than Stockfish or playing at near Elo level:
I can change my mind about allowing commercial engines in SCCT,
If the commercial authors will give as present their engines + paying my hardware electricity bills!

There will be exception only in case, I mean: I can pay and test their commercial engines,
If there will be available X commercial engine which will be at least +100 Elo stronger than free available engine (currently Stockfish)
Then it does not matter the price...I am ready to pay 100 Euro, 200 Euro or even more...

Otherwise...I can't see any reason to buy it...

In other words my dear friend, it all depends on you )
And I believe that you will make the right decision !!



Greetings,
Sedat

[lucasart]

Read Orgin Forum ...

Fruit = Rybka ... Rybka = IPP, IPP = Houdini
No doubt about it.

Please don't speak of what you don't understand with such certainty. There is not a shred of evidence to show that Ippolit is based on Rybka. In fact, there is overwhelming evidence of the contrary.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Sedat,

first Rybka = Fruit
first Komodo = Doch
first Doch = Don, and nothing to do with Rybka!

Larry help Don so many years before Rybka. Larry and Don are many years the team. OK, Larry gave a part of code to Rybka ... after Version 1.0 of Rybka ... and that have also nothing to do that Larry have anything to do with cloning Fruit.

Larry and Don are honest People / programmers.
Vas are never honest to the community.
Who are Vas to explain what happened.

Rybka is out of my testing for ever!

My rating list is clear and clone free I hope!
Can nothing see with any of stats I create with the programs I am using.

---

Other things your wrote I can understand.
But if you are looking more on the great style programs Hiarcs or Junior have never you would be delete.

The normal user are thinking more as you wrote here ...
With such a strong free Software Stockfish is the situation for people which have commercial interest isn't easy. Most are develops for 1 EUR an App for Android and have more Money in result as programmers which search the way with a normaly engine for PC.

Perhaps later ... if I start FCT2 in an half year free and open source engines will be available in my tourney only. So I have more places if I am using 21 engines only. Can see more of the great amateurs if I am looking at home.

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Lucas,

I have much more Information about it as you have perhaps in your brain? Send by programmers which are able to explain. You are right in your basic statement, you are wrong about it what I can understand and what not.

I will start testing your DiscoCheck again in perhaps 1-2 hours.
Thanks for your update!
Very interesting to test your work.

Best
Frank

[lkaufman]

BTW, here is my opinion about new commercial engine releases which are weaker than Stockfish or playing at near Elo level:
I can change my mind about allowing commercial engines in SCCT,
If the commercial authors will give as present their engines + paying my hardware electricity bills!

There will be exception only in case, I mean: I can pay and test their commercial engines,
If there will be available X commercial engine which will be at least +100 Elo stronger than free available engine (currently Stockfish)
Then it does not matter the price...I am ready to pay 100 Euro, 200 Euro or even more...

Otherwise...I can't see any reason to buy it...

In other words my dear friend, it all depends on you )
And I believe that you will make the right decision !!



Greetings,
Sedat

We will normally give a free copy of Komodo on request to any respected individual or group who tests engines and provides a rating list that is well known. We would be glad to do so for you if you decide to test all top commercial engines who do the same. But you ruled that out by asking for money for your electric bill, which of course neither Komodo nor any other commercial engine would offer, as we would have to do the same for all the testing groups and then they would have their neutrality questioned. As long as you don't have to pay for an engine yourself, why should you test freeware but not commercial software? For many people the cost of engines like Komodo is rather insignificant. If someone spends thousands of dollars to get a good computer for chess, another $60 for the engine is hardly a consideration. I realize that for many people $60 is not a trivial sum, but that shouldn't be an issue for a tester.

Best regards, Larry

[Albert Silver]

I just want to add that we are no longer testing against Houdini, only against Stockfish. But the reason for this is not that Houdini started life as a total clone, but simply because Houdini is no longer a strong enough opponent for us!

Larry

That's silly. For one thing, they are different engines, and for another, Houdini is still the clear no.3, and not by as much as you suggest. Perhaps ego is in play here? A desire to claim the previous king is not worth playing?

The contrasting styles will help refine Komodo, pressing it in areas Stockfish might not, and possibly highlighting weaknesses the other might not. It is not as if Stockfish were simply a souped up Houdini. They are different.

This is also the answer to Sean's comment. There is more at play than Elo points. They are quite different with their own strengths and styles. Variety is the spice of life.

[lkaufman]

I just want to add that we are no longer testing against Houdini, only against Stockfish. But the reason for this is not that Houdini started life as a total clone, but simply because Houdini is no longer a strong enough opponent for us!

Larry

That's silly. For one thing, they are different engines, and for another, Houdini is still the clear no.3, and not by as much as you suggest. Perhaps ego is in play here? A desire to claim the previous king is not worth playing?

The contrasting styles will help refine Komodo, pressing it in areas Stockfish might not, and possibly highlighting weaknesses the other might not. It is not as if Stockfish were simply a souped up Houdini. They are different.

This is also the answer to Sean's comment. There is more at play than Elo points. They are quite different with their own strengths and styles. Variety is the spice of life.

Yes, if you are playing a small number of games at a long time control and plan to examine all the games, then variety is important. But if you are just trying to determine as quickly as possible whether a small program change is an elo gainer or not, the margin of error for a given number of games is smaller if the opponent is about equal, so it would take more games against a weaker opponent like Houdini than against an equal opponent like Stockfish. It's true that some changes might work better against one than against the other, but that is only rarely the case. For most changes, the main thing is to minimize the error bar. Actually, playing the older version of your own program does this most efficiently, but there are some problems with such self-play, so we use both methods.
It also seems that for unknown reasons we have more trouble against SF than against Houdini even after allowing for the margin by which SF beats Houdini. So apparently we have more trouble with SF style, so it makes sense to focus on our most difficult opponent.