how far is too far: houdini for sell?

[rodolfoleoni]

I can add that if the claim is that Houdini is illegal that is a different claim than the claim that it is not original then I think that there is no proof for the last claim.

I read that Houdini is based on Ippolit and I saw no proof that Ippolit is illegal.

I confess I'm a bit confused about what's legal/illegal, fair/unfair, clone/not-clone. The fact Rybka was found illegal by ICGA panel seems to change many things. I still don't know if Ippo & Co. are Rybka derivatives. If so, they could have restored the right way of free sources GPL derivatives (somehow from Fruit/Crafty, long time ago). But they didn't acknowledge Fabien and Bob in any way. Because, afaik, there's no clue of Fruit/Crafty code in their sources.

Or they could just be considered clones of an illegal program. Or maybe they didn't derive fron any Rybka and should be considered absolutely legal.

Can we expect things will become clearer through ICGA panel?

And I can say nothing about Houdini. In the worst case, Robert Houdart learned to drive with a stolen car, but with no clues about that car being stolen, except for words of V.R. From the reports I read some times ago, the sentences about Ippo were "not a clone". Where's truth?

[Engin]

Mr. Houdart said self that he start from the source ippollit/robolito, so Houdini is based on Ippolit/robolito or whatever the names are, so far as i know was the source under the GPL , if houdini now based on ippolit why he don`t make the source public too, that is the rule of GPL, but he close the source and sell it now, that is against the rule of GPL.

[rodolfoleoni]

But, as I read in another thread in these days, there was a version of Robbolito which was public domain, not GPLed, and work with Houdini could have been started with that Robbo.

Not taking any part in the conflict, I'd only like to understand things better....

[geots]

Well you will hate this news then. I am in the process of buying the development of Houdini. I'm actually looking forward to it. Norman and I will be developing it further as a team. We are in the process of trying to recruit a 3rd member for our team. We have had a few short discussions with Chinmay- he will give us an answer shortly- we hope. Hope you will wish us the best.

are you serious mr speight or is this a joke?

No George, I'm not serious. I just get so tired of reading the same stuff over and over and over. It just never ends. The tip-off that I wasn't serious would have been when I mentioned recruiting "Chinmay", or whatever name he is using this week.




sorry but I don't know this person, chinmay, so I didn't get your joke

Chinmay has a nice collection of clones and cracked engines- cracked being commercials that are of dubious origin. He always wants to run a programmer's engine in tourneys so he can palm a copy for himself. Etc.


gts

[Houdini]

Mr. Houdart said self that he start from the source ippollit/robolito, so Houdini is based on Ippolit/robolito or whatever the names are, so far as i know was the source under the GPL , if houdini now based on ippolit why he don`t make the source public too, that is the rule of GPL, but he close the source and sell it now, that is against the rule of GPL.

1) No, Mr. Houdart did never say anything of that kind. Here is what Mr. Houdart says: "Without many ideas and techniques from the open source chess engines Ippolit and Stockfish, Houdini would not nearly be as strong as it is now." See the Houdini Web Site at http://www.cruxis.com/chess/houdini.htm .

2) No, Ippolit/robbolito is not source under GPL, see the other thread.

That makes two major false claims in one sentence.
Please stop spreading this kind of nonsense about Houdini.

[Thomas Mayer]

Hi Robert,

well as far as I know the other thread is moved/deleted. Anyway, if I got you right in that thread then Houdini in the beginning started with the source of Robbolito 0.85f1 which is according to it's license in the public domain. Can you confirm that ?

Greets, Thomas

[Houdini]

Hi Robert,

well as far as I know the other thread is moved/deleted. Anyway, if I got you right in that thread then Houdini in the beginning started with the source of Robbolito 0.85f1 which is according to it's license in the public domain. Can you confirm that ?

Greets, Thomas

1) No, the thread is still there.
See http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40685 .

2) No, in this thread I did not say that Houdini started as (fill in your pet fantasy), I simply pointed out a factual error in Frank Quisinsky's claims about Ippolit and Robbolito being GPL licensed.
See http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 076#428076 .

[Thomas Mayer]

Hi Robert,

2) No, in this thread I did not say that Houdini started as (fill in your pet fantasy), I simply pointed out a factual error in Frank Quisinsky's claims about Ippolit and Robbolito being GPL licensed.
See http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 076#428076 .

well, I understood it that way (and it seems others does as well), but thanks for clarification.

Greets, Thomas

[bob]

I thought there was considerable evidence that houdini was a close derivative of rybka. Now it is for sell? Whatever your view of rybka (legal or derivitive), there is 0 doubt about Houdini being unoriginal. sigh.

If only we could see a return of crafty to number 1, or the program of any honest programmer.

Plagiarism rewarded.

Best
J

I did not buy houdini but I see no problem with buying non original programs.

Ok to buy "stolen merchandise" as well? I mean, YOU didn't actually steal it...
Wait, you might get charged with "receiving stolen merchandise" anyway... "caveat emptor".

[bob]

I thought there was considerable evidence that houdini was a close derivative of rybka. Now it is for sell? Whatever your view of rybka (legal or derivitive), there is 0 doubt about Houdini being unoriginal. sigh.

If only we could see a return of crafty to number 1, or the program of any honest programmer.

Plagiarism rewarded.

Best
J

Rybka is for sell even after the ICGA ruling. Besides that, no one proved in any legal way that Ipppos are illegal. Besides that, no one proved in any legal way that Houdini is a derivative of anything, or more than that, illegal. In fact, it's easier for Houdart to sue you for your above words, than you can sue him.

If you like Crafty more, then don't buy Houdini and go to the download page of Crafty.

Kai

If you go to open-chess, you will find some comparisons between ippolit and houdini 1.0 source. I think that pretty much nails this issue down solidly. Houdini is not, and never has been original code...