Stockfish will be extremely slow on the Apple MacBook PRO 16-inch M3 MAX

[Magnum]

Stockfish will be extremely slow on the Apple MacBook PRO 16-inch M3 MAX.

On https://ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd--in ... ckfish.php, Stockfish 14.1 on the M1 MAX only reaches 12,556,848 nodes/second.
= 12567 kn/s

The CPU of the M1 MAX has 8 high performance cores and 2 high efficiency cores.
1 high performance core reaches 1396.33 kn/s.
1 high efficiency core reaches 698.17 kn/s.
8x 1396.33 = 11170.64
2x 698.17 = 1396.34
= 12567 kn/s

The M2 MAX CPU has 8 high performance cores and 4 high efficiency cores.
These should be 15%-20% faster than the M1 MAX.
But since I don't have an M2 MAX and there is no result at ipmanchess, I go by the GHz % increase.
1 high performance core reaches 1396.33 kn/s. + 10% = 1535.96 kn/s
1 high efficiency core reaches 698.17 kn/s. + 40% = 977.44 kn/s
8 x 1535.96 kn/s = 12287.68 kn/s
4 x 977.44 = 3909.76 kn/s
= 16197.44 kn/s

The M3 MAX CPU has 12 high-performance cores and 4 high-efficiency cores.
12 x 1535.96 = 18431.52 kn/s
4 x 977.44 = 3909.76 kn/s
= 22341.28 kn/s

+ 20% because the single core performance of the M3 MAX increases by 20%.
= 26809.54 kn/s

Stockfish will be additionally + 30% faster due to ARMv9.
= 34852.40 kn/s

(35000 kn/s with Stockfish 14.1)

35.415.474 AMD Ryzen 9 5950X @4.3Ghz ddr4 3600 CL18 16cores bmi2+LP P.J W11
35.297.030 Intel Core i9 7980XE @4.2Ghz ddr4 3200 CL16 36threads pop Ipmanchess W10
35.264.410 Intel Core i7 12700K @5.0Ghz ddr5 6000 CL36 20threads avx2 Monstru W10
35.006.114 Intel Core i7 12700K @5.0Ghz ddr5 6000 CL36 20threads bmi2 Monstru W10
34.370.723 AMD Ryzen 9 3950X @4.0Ghz ddr4 3600 CL19 32threads pop P.J L

Yes I know that nobody uses Stockfish 14.1 anymore.
Nevertheless the list at ipmanchess is based on Stockfish 14.1.

For a fair comparison:
1. we should not forget that Stockfish has been improved and optimized for Intel and AMD CPUs for decades. Everything that could be achieved has been achieved here.
2. with Apple's ARM CPUs / M1, M2... chips they are just starting and this since Stockfish 15/16.

Stockfish developers have made some great improvements:
+5% speed up from 2022 on ARM CPUs
35000 kn/s + 5%
= 36750 kn/s

+75.63% speed up from 2023 on ARM CPUs
36750 + 75.63%
= 64544 kn/s

65.049.545 2x Intel Xeon Gold 6230R @ 2.10GHz ddr4 3200 52threads vnni256 Sopel L
64.293.701 2x Intel Xeon Gold 6326 @ 2.90GHz ddr4 3200 64threads avx2 Marco Zerbinati WS22
63.280.852 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X @4.9Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads vnni256 Lemon W11
63.168.609 2x Intel Xeon E5-2698 v4 @2.7Ghz ddr4 2133 CL15 COD OFF 80threads avx2 Jin38 W10
62.043.349 2x Intel Xeon E5-2698 v4 @2.7Ghz ddr4 2133 CL15 COD ON 80threads avx2 Jin38 W10
61.206.345 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X @4.7Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads vnni256 Monstru W11
59.696.665 2x Intel Xeon E5-2698 v4 @2.6Ghz ddr4 2133 CL15 COD ON 80threads avx2 Jin38 W10
59.694.728 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X @4.7Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads bmi2 Monstru W11
57.351.214 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X @4.7Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads avx2 Monstru W11
56.758.543 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D @5.0Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads avx2 Monstru W11
56.692.652 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D @5.0Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads vnni256 Monstru W11
55.987.819 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X @4.7Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads avx512 Monstru W11
55.767.737 2x Intel Xeon E5-2698 v4 @2.6Ghz ddr4 2133 CL15 COD ON 80threads pop Jin38 W10
55.691.483 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X @4.7Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads vnni512 Monstru W11
55.549.917 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D @5.0Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads bmi2 Monstru W11
54.280.856 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X @5.0Ghz DDR5 5200 CL38 32threads avx512 Anakwaboe4 W11
52.098.765 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D @5.0Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads avx512 Monstru W11
51.753.064 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X @4.7Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads pop Monstru W11
51.332.769 AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D @5.0Ghz DDR5 6000 CL30 32threads vnni512 Monstru W11

If 64544 kn/s is too slow for you, then buy a Mac Studio with M3 ULTRA instead of a MacBook with M3 MAX.
64544 kn/s x 2
= 129088 kn/s

112.428.605 AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3990X @2.6Ghz ddr4 3200 CL22 128threads avx2 noobpwnftw W11
111.039.861 AMD Ryzen Threadripper Pro 5995WX @2.7Ghz ddr4 2133 64cores avx2 windfishballad L
110.210.992 AMD Ryzen Threadripper Pro 5995WX @2.7Ghz ddr4 3200 64cores bmi2 windfishballad L
86.026.909 AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X @3.7Ghz ddr4 3200 CL16 64threads avx2 kul W11
85.835.086 AWS Graviton3 / arm64 @2.6Ghz 64threads ARMv8 vondele L

[smatovic]

"Just buy an AMD Ryzen"

--
Srdja

[syzygy]

1. we should not forget that Stockfish has been improved and optimized for Intel and AMD CPUs for decades. Everything that could be achieved has been achieved here.

Not really. All the non-NNUE parts are written with a regular 64-bit cpu in mind. There is the BMI2 sliding-move generation code, but that speeds up by just a few percent (or less), and it would be easy to add similar code for ARM if ARM had instructions that could be made use of for sliding-move generation.

The NNUE code is where CPU-specific code can make a big difference. This code is very recent (on your scale of "decades").

I don't understand your choice of subject, which does not seem to make any sense when I look at what you write. Intentional clickbait?

[Modern Times]

I don't understand your choice of subject, which does not seem to make any sense when I look at what you write. Intentional clickbait?

Clickbait for sure, but I'm getting really annoyed about all of this Mac fanboyism and spamming of this forum. If he thinks he is encouraging people to go to Mac, well for many people it will be the exact opposite, they will want to steer clear. I'm all for freedom of choice and innovation, but I hate people trying to relentlessly shove their point of view down your throat. He is going onto my ignore list. Should have done it long ago.

[jhellis3]

Apple fans generally don't get outside the cult perspectives. I don't refuse to buy Apple products because their hardware is inferior. I don't refuse to buy Apple products because their software is inferior. I refuse to buy Apple products because of the way they do business.

It doesn't matter how "good" an Apple product is; I have no interest in it while their business practices remain the way they are. And as their business practices have resulted in a nearly 3 trillion valuation, I doubt they will be changing any time soon.

[syzygy]

Apple fans generally don't get outside the cult perspectives. I don't refuse to buy Apple products because their hardware is inferior. I don't refuse to buy Apple products because their software is inferior. I refuse to buy Apple products because of the way they do business.

It doesn't matter how "good" an Apple product is; I have no interest in it while their business practices remain the way they are. And as their business practices have resulted in a nearly 3 trillion valuation, I doubt they will be changing any time soon.

I might at some point buy one and install Linux on it.

[Hai]

Apple fans generally don't get outside the cult perspectives. I don't refuse to buy Apple products because their hardware is inferior. I don't refuse to buy Apple products because their software is inferior. I refuse to buy Apple products because of the way they do business.

It doesn't matter how "good" an Apple product is; I have no interest in it while their business practices remain the way they are. And as their business practices have resulted in a nearly 3 trillion valuation, I doubt they will be changing any time soon.

I might at some point buy one and install Linux on it.

Linux works without problems.

[Hai]

I might at some point buy one and install Linux on it.

Linux works without problems.

[Hai]

I might at some point buy one and install Linux on it.

Linux works without problems.

[wickedpotus]

I might at some point buy one and install Linux on it.

Linux works without problems.

"without problems" ??

Running an open, non-proprietary operating system on proprietary platforms like Apple can often lead to a less-than-ideal experience, particularly when it comes to receiving service or warranty repairs for the device. While it can be enjoyable to use "good" software on Apple computers, it seems quite unreasonable to choose an expensive ARM-based Apple computer over faster and more affordable alternatives available, especially if the intention is to run Linux. However, if I was forced to use an Apple computer, my initial instinct would be to install Asahi first thing to get rid of the MacOS virus.