Search found 3881 matches

by syzygy
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:12 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Copyright and Machine Learning IP
Replies: 101
Views: 1744

Re: Copyright and Machine Learning IP

You've described a process where a network has learnt "game rules" by observation of those rules in action. But I don't get the bit where the "rule creation creativity" was passed across to the NN. I would get it if you said the "rules" were passed across. Because, now the NN encodes the rules, but...
by syzygy
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:57 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Copyright and Machine Learning IP
Replies: 101
Views: 1744

Re: Copyright and Machine Learning IP

syzygy wrote: So my point is that the set of weights will be just as (un)copyrighted as the equivalent source or object code. The extra mechanical transformation (the "direct map") makes no difference. Yes, I agreed with you earlier and switched to: Chrisw wrote: Agreed. For this particular ingenio...
by syzygy
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:10 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Copyright and Machine Learning IP
Replies: 101
Views: 1744

Re: Copyright and Machine Learning IP

And you argue, I think, that this transformation is functional. No, I'm saying that the transformation is mechanical. Converting a book from ASCII to Morse code is a mechanical and can therefore not result in the addition of creative elements. Mechanically converting an NN weight into a few lines o...
by syzygy
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:43 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Copyright and Machine Learning IP
Replies: 101
Views: 1744

Re: Copyright and Machine Learning IP

And you argue, I think, that this transformation is functional. No, I'm saying that the transformation is mechanical. Converting a book from ASCII to Morse code is a mechanical and can therefore not result in the addition of creative elements. Mechanically converting an NN weight into a few lines o...
by syzygy
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:30 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Copyright and Machine Learning IP
Replies: 101
Views: 1744

Re: Copyright and Machine Learning IP

Well, the architecture of a neural net maps directly to a computer program. You could say that the net inputs (chess position eg) are variables, the fixed weights as program constants and the net architecture as the program. If you really wanted, you could unroll the program loops and insert the co...
by syzygy
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:50 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Copyright and Machine Learning IP
Replies: 101
Views: 1744

Re: Copyright and Machine Learning IP

Well, the architecture of a neural net maps directly to a computer program. You could say that the net inputs (chess position eg) are variables, the fixed weights as program constants and the net architecture as the program. If you really wanted, you could unroll the program loops and insert the co...
by syzygy
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:41 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Copyright and Machine Learning IP
Replies: 101
Views: 1744

Re: Copyright and Machine Learning IP

I am also a bit uncomfortable with this focusing on EU law, now you mentioned that member states are free to adopt laws to protect sports events not protected by EU law. That woke me up to the fact that EU law is not a complete system of laws of a civilized society, but just the part of it that cou...
by syzygy
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:25 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Copyright and Machine Learning IP
Replies: 101
Views: 1744

Re: Copyright and Machine Learning IP

Meanwhile NN weights are thoroughly and completely dependent on each other. Just try and perform a sort, please. And then see what you get. Database? No way. If you just dump the weights as numbers in a database (forgetting about any structure you might lose by doing that) and that database is then...
by syzygy
Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:21 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Copyright and Machine Learning IP
Replies: 101
Views: 1744

Re: Copyright and Machine Learning IP

But I did not mean to imply that there can never be a copyright / patent on an NN. For example, in weather forecast, the software analyzes some data and creates animated images from them. There is no copyright on the forecast, but there is on the images because they present the data in an original ...
by syzygy
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:02 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Copyright and Machine Learning IP
Replies: 101
Views: 1744

Re: Copyright and Machine Learning IP

Note that he said the training set was a database, not the NN. Ah, you're right. I completely misread the post I responded to. Anyway, I think I have answered my own question earlier in this thread about whether an NN might be protected in the EU by a database right. (There might still be the argum...