World Computer Chess Championship

[Modern Times]

Yes, David keeps mentioning reimbursement of travel expenses, but that is only part of it. Participants have to take vacation time to attend, and that is limited. So do you take a nice family vacation for a week, or do you leave your family at home and play in a chess tournament ? For many that is what they would be facing, and of course family should always take priority.

[Ovyron]

Yes, David keeps mentioning reimbursement of travel expenses, but that is only part of it. Participants have to take vacation time to attend, and that is limited. So do you take a nice family vacation for a week, or do you leave your family at home and play in a chess tournament ? For many that is what they would be facing, and of course family should always take priority.

This was never a problem when the WCCC was very popular, so I think talking about expenses is a waste of time.

People are willing to pay when things are worth it, the WCCC used to be worth it, if you fix it so it's worthy again, people will go, no matter the expenses. So go and ask the top authors why they're abstaining, instead of having an army of experts ready to disassemble the engine if those authors dare to think of appying for the tourney...

[jhellis3]

If there is still to be an unequal hardware section, you should invite Deep Mind to participate. That would certainly generate interest, and a rising tide lifts all boats.

As for programs or authors with dubious histories, you need to look forward and not behind. Welcome all applicants. Subject all or none closed sourced entries to 3rd party review (do not single people/entries out), and if so only the source of the current work being entered. Leave the past in the past.

[Henk]

Yes, David keeps mentioning reimbursement of travel expenses, but that is only part of it. Participants have to take vacation time to attend, and that is limited. So do you take a nice family vacation for a week, or do you leave your family at home and play in a chess tournament ? For many that is what they would be facing, and of course family should always take priority.

This was never a problem when the WCCC was very popular, so I think talking about expenses is a waste of time.

People are willing to pay when things are worth it, the WCCC used to be worth it, if you fix it so it's worthy again, people will go, no matter the expenses. So go and ask the top authors why they're abstaining, instead of having an army of experts ready to disassemble the engine if those authors dare to think of appying for the tourney...

If you give every participant 20000 dollars all problems disappear. So it mainly is a matter of money.

[jdart]

As for programs or authors with dubious histories, you need to look forward and not behind. Welcome all applicants. Subject all or none closed sourced entries to 3rd party review (do not single people/entries out), and if so only the source of the current work being entered. Leave the past in the past.

Indeed, most authors have moved on. Rybka/Fritz supposedly has a new code base. Fire used to be an Ippolit derivative, but is no longer. Houdini, who knows? But clearly Houdini 6 is far removed from early versions.

--Jon

[Ras]

the WCCC used to be worth it

But that was before the internet made it obsolete. There is no reason to physically travel in order to execute moves on the board for computers that can as well exchange them electronically. Plus that you can have the computers play many more games so that the tournament win is less of a lottery.

Mimicking the limitations of human tournaments is just anachronistic, but the WCCC didn't get that in due time. The time window for serious innovation is long closed because that innovation has already happened - elsewhere and successfully.

[Nelson Hernandez]

Mimicking the limitations of human tournaments is just anachronistic

I think you've nailed it squarely. And yet there is a need for a physical spectacle and press access for there to be press interest.

So the solution is a two-part WCCC, first a Candidates tournament that would be run on the Internet, and second a live confrontation between the top two engines at some location of the ICGA's choice which was fully-subsidized for travel and entertainment and came with a respectable prize fund.

Yes, it is absurd for people to travel thousands of miles to move pieces on a chessboard when it can all be done over the Internet. But getting the top two programmers to face each other down would be loads of fun for people in the computer chess niche. No stand-ins or "operators" allowed, either--only the programmers themselves would do. Dressed in dark suits with skinny 1950s neckties. With live video for us to watch on the Internet.

[Guenther]

the WCCC used to be worth it

But that was before the internet made it obsolete. There is no reason to physically travel in order to execute moves on the board for computers that can as well exchange them electronically. Plus that you can have the computers play many more games so that the tournament win is less of a lottery.

Mimicking the limitations of human tournaments is just anachronistic, but the WCCC didn't get that in due time. The time window for serious innovation is long closed because that innovation has already happened - elsewhere and successfully.

Well there is not a single serious tournament online with titles and prize money, because it would be a cheat fest. (and was several times already)

[Ras]

Well there is not a single serious tournament online with titles and prize money, because it would be a cheat fest. (and was several times already)

That's easy to counter by prompting the authors to electronically submit the engines to wherever the servers are located. The team that runs the online tournament can examine the engines without the physical presence of the authors. Similarities to existing championships are by accident only.

[Guenther]

Well there is not a single serious tournament online with titles and prize money, because it would be a cheat fest. (and was several times already)

That's easy to counter by prompting the authors to electronically submit the engines to wherever the servers are located. The team that runs the online tournament can examine the engines without the physical presence of the authors. Similarities to existing championships are by accident only. ;-)

True if all participants trust how the organisation runs those later
(and handles other important aspects).