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Consider how the *vast* majority of chess players currently use a chess engine and tell me why that is now obsolete? Why do millions of amateur chess players suddenly need Alpha Zero to help point out their amateur mistakes? I look foward to the day when Stockfish is no longer good enough to find mistakes in my games!shrapnel wrote:rendering Alpha Beta type Chess Engines obsolete
I am not convinced by the previous tests. For obvious reasons, they are very far from the conditions of the AlphaZero vs Stockfish match.Laskos wrote:See here, for example:abulmo2 wrote:This have to be proved. I would like to see a SF 8 vs SF 8 (or Komodo/Houdini) match with different hash sizes to see the impact of the hash size to the elo, on the machine used by the alphaZero team. Unfortunately, I do not have a computer powerful enough to do any test, so I cannot do anything meaningful myself.Leo wrote:To limit the strength of SF.Werewolf wrote:Sorry that was a typo - I meant 1 GB of Hash.
And why did they use such a tiny amount?
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... t&start=20
In the conditions of the match with A0, probably the necessary Hash was 32 or 64GB, and by looking at the link, it seems, SF8 had some 10% time-to-depth disadvantage. How it translates in Elo points there I don't know, Elo becomes a bit obsolete when the score is 28-0 with 72 draws. Maybe with 64GB Hash SF8 would have gotten 1-2 more draws. This Hash issue is a bit irrelevant, when we are talking of such hard to compare hardware used by A0 and SF8.
You are my favourite comedian!shrapnel wrote:This is the part which seems to be evading Werewolf's attention.Laskos wrote:How it translates in Elo points there I don't know, Elo becomes a bit obsolete when the score is 28-0 with 72 draws. Maybe with 64GB Hash SF8 would have gotten 1-2 more draws. This Hash issue is a bit irrelevant, when we are talking of such hard to compare hardware used by A0 and SF8.
He is just simply desperately looking for excuses to explain the Rout of Stockfish. He will accept everything except the relevant FACT that there has been a quantum jump in computer chess, rendering Alpha Beta type Chess Engines obsolete.
To be fair, its been too sudden a shock for him and others like him and he will take time to adjust to the fact that there is a new Alpha in Town !
Of course, DeepMind not releasing more information and games since then for what ever reason, will only encourage his type.
Werewolf wrote:You are my favourite comedian!shrapnel wrote:This is the part which seems to be evading Werewolf's attention.Laskos wrote:How it translates in Elo points there I don't know, Elo becomes a bit obsolete when the score is 28-0 with 72 draws. Maybe with 64GB Hash SF8 would have gotten 1-2 more draws. This Hash issue is a bit irrelevant, when we are talking of such hard to compare hardware used by A0 and SF8.
He is just simply desperately looking for excuses to explain the Rout of Stockfish. He will accept everything except the relevant FACT that there has been a quantum jump in computer chess, rendering Alpha Beta type Chess Engines obsolete.
To be fair, its been too sudden a shock for him and others like him and he will take time to adjust to the fact that there is a new Alpha in Town !
Of course, DeepMind not releasing more information and games since then for what ever reason, will only encourage his type.
But you can't answer my questions, how come?
- why did they run with HT?
- why did they keep the hash far too small?
- why that time control?
- why no opening book?
- why are only the wins shown? Was SF close to winning some of the draws, perhaps?
- And have you programmed??!
They did those things to weaken SF. They wanted an impressive score. Good point. For all we know they didn't show some losses by AZ
LOL, another Conspiracy Theory guy. You can join the company of Tsvetkov,Szabo and werewolf.Leo wrote:they did those things to weaken SF. They wanted an impressive score. Good point. For all we know they didn't show some losses by AZ
Played through them and actually I agree with you Shrapnel - really impressive from AlphaZero.shrapnel wrote:LOL, another Conspiracy Theory guy. You can join the company of Tsvetkov,Szabo and werewolf.Leo wrote:they did those things to weaken SF. They wanted an impressive score. Good point. For all we know they didn't show some losses by AZ
Pathetic.
Obviously none of you have played through those 10 Games.
Also, go through these Articles, after you finish putting down AlphaZero.
ttps://www.extremetech.com/extreme/260215-alph ... w-world-ai
https://www.pcgamesn.com/chess/chess-go ... -stockfish.
I particularly like the Comment " Stockfish reduced to fish stock "
Fair enough.Werewolf wrote:Played through them and actually I agree with you Shrapnel - really impressive from AlphaZero.
I just wished SF wasn't weakened.
OK, I tried Komodo 11.2.2 with a tweak to the Dynamism parameter (set it to 200; an increase over the default 130 value for this parameter) and it sees Re1 immediately on my laptop (I used a single core):shrapnel wrote:I don't have to be a Programmer to see that Stockfish was completely outclassed.
Run any Engine you like under whatever conditions you want and can you find 19. Re1 ?
[d]rnb2r2/p3bpkp/1ppq3N/6p1/Q7/2P3P1/P4PBP/R1B2RK1 w - - 0 19
Or any of the other simple but brilliant moves found by AlphaZero in the 10 example games, with all the Hash and Time you like.
Like I said earlier, just find the time to go through those 10 games, with any Engine you like and then maybe, just maybe you'll see the light ; instead of questioning my qualifications, as if they have any relevance to the brilliance of AlphaZero.
You can call me all the names you like, but your silly questions just confirm my suspicion that you are desperately looking for excuses to explain why Stockfish got its a$$ kicked.
Obviously, you just believe what you want to believe, no matter how far it is from the facts.
So did I with a tweaked Houdini, read my Post above.royb wrote:
OK, I tried Komodo 11.2.2 with a tweak to the Dynamism parameter (set it to 200; an increase over the default 130 value for this parameter) and it sees Re1 immediately on my laptop (I used a single core):