Faster Forced Mate

MikeGL · Post by **MikeGL** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:36 am

duncan wrote:
MikeGL wrote:[D]8/p1p3p1/p5Pp/8/p1p5/6r1/1QP2p1k/N4Kb1 w - - 0 1

White to Play, Mate in #66 source ChestUCI.epd position 6351

Same old theme by Bláthy, but same old difficult puzzle for
most engines due to zugzwangs.
Not found in yacpdb and not in one of Arpad Rusz posted puzzle/solutions.

Solution of above puzzle follows -
I tried this out on a computer, it won faster than 66. is the computer overlooking something ?

You and your engine could be correct, because I just solved this manually
and there could be a faster solution by capturing all those pesky pawns of
black, which could result in a faster checkmate. Is the game still available? Can you post it so we could verify if there's a cook for this puzzle.

regards

Vinvin · Post by **Vinvin** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:17 am

MikeGL wrote:[D]8/p1p3p1/p5Pp/8/p1p5/6r1/1QP2p1k/N4Kb1 w - - 0 1

White to Play, Mate in #66 source ChestUCI.epd position 6351

Same old theme by Bláthy, but same old difficult puzzle for
most engines due to zugzwangs.
Not found in yacpdb and not in one of Arpad Rusz posted puzzle/solutions.
...

SF-MF reports a mate in 28 after 1.Qxg7, winning the rook :

Code: Select all

FEN&#58; 8/p1p3Q1/p5Pp/8/p1p5/6r1/2P2p1k/N4Kb1 b - - 0 1

Stockfish_170708_matefinder&#58;
...
 46/69	07&#58;43	 8 951 870k	19 316k	+M21	1. ... Rxg6 2.Qxg6 Kh3 3.Qxh6+ Kg4 4.Qxa6 a3 5.Qxc4+ Kf5 6.Qxc7 Ke6 7.Qxa7 Bh2 8.Qxa3 Bd6 9.Qa2+ Ke5 10.Nb3 Bc7 11.Qa6 Bd8 12.Qe2+ Kd6 13.Qd3+ Kc7 14.Qd5 Be7 15.Nd4 Bb4 16.Qc4+ Kd8 17.Qxb4 Kd7 18.Qc5 Kd8 19.Qd6+ Ke8 20.Qc7 Kf8 21.Nf5 Kg8 22.Qg7+
 46/69	07&#58;43	 8 951 870k	19 316k	+M28	1. ... Kh3 2.Qxh6+ Kg4 3.g7 Kf5 4.Qh7+ Ke5 5.g8R Rxg8 6.Qxg8 Kd4 7.Qg7+ Kc5 8.Qxc7+ Kd5 9.Qa5+ Kd4 10.Qxa4 Kc3 11.Qa3+ Kd4 12.Qxa6 Kc3 13.Qa3+ Kd4 14.Qxa7+ Kd5 15.Qa5+ Kc6 16.Qe5 Kb6 17.Qd5 Kc7 18.Qxc4+ Kd6 19.Qd4+ Ke7 20.Qe5+ Kd7 21.Nb3 Kc6 22.Nd4+ Kd7 23.Qe6+ Kc7 24.Qc6+ Kd8 25.Qb7 Ke8 26.Nf5 Kd8 27.Qe7+ Kc8 28.Nd6+ Kb8 29.Qb7+
 46/69	07&#58;43	 8 951 870k	19 316k	+M28	1. ... Rg4 2.Qxh6+ Kg3 3.g7 c3 4.Qe3+ Kh4 5.Qe7+ Kh5 6.Qe8+ Kh4 7.g8Q Rxg8 8.Qxg8 Kh5 9.Qf7+ Kg5 10.Qxc7 Kg6 11.Qc6+ Kf5 12.Qxc3 Ke6 13.Qc6+ Ke5 14.Qxa6 Bh2 15.Qxa7 Ke6 16.Qxa4 Be5 17.Qc6+ Ke7 18.Nb3 Kf7 19.Nc5 Ba1 20.Qb7+ Kf6 21.Qa6+ Ke5 22.Qxa1+ Kd6 23.Nd3 Ke7 24.Qe5+ Kd7 25.Qf6 Kc8 26.Nc5 Kc7 27.Kxf2

Dann Corbit · Post by **Dann Corbit** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:24 am

That's an awful lot of black pawns. Not that the position isn't fun.

MikeGL · Post by **MikeGL** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:11 am

Vinvin wrote:

MikeGL wrote:[D]8/p1p3p1/p5Pp/8/p1p5/6r1/1QP2p1k/N4Kb1 w - - 0 1

White to Play, Mate in #66 source ChestUCI.epd position 6351

Same old theme by Bláthy, but same old difficult puzzle for
most engines due to zugzwangs.
Not found in yacpdb and not in one of Arpad Rusz posted puzzle/solutions.
...

SF-MF reports a mate in 28 after 1.Qxg7, winning the rook :

Code: Select all

FEN&#58; 8/p1p3Q1/p5Pp/8/p1p5/6r1/2P2p1k/N4Kb1 b - - 0 1

Stockfish_170708_matefinder&#58;
...
 46/69	07&#58;43	 8 951 870k	19 316k	+M21	1. ... Rxg6 2.Qxg6 Kh3 3.Qxh6+ Kg4 4.Qxa6 a3 5.Qxc4+ Kf5 6.Qxc7 Ke6 7.Qxa7 Bh2 8.Qxa3 Bd6 9.Qa2+ Ke5 10.Nb3 Bc7 11.Qa6 Bd8 12.Qe2+ Kd6 13.Qd3+ Kc7 14.Qd5 Be7 15.Nd4 Bb4 16.Qc4+ Kd8 17.Qxb4 Kd7 18.Qc5 Kd8 19.Qd6+ Ke8 20.Qc7 Kf8 21.Nf5 Kg8 22.Qg7+
 46/69	07&#58;43	 8 951 870k	19 316k	+M28	1. ... Kh3 2.Qxh6+ Kg4 3.g7 Kf5 4.Qh7+ Ke5 5.g8R Rxg8 6.Qxg8 Kd4 7.Qg7+ Kc5 8.Qxc7+ Kd5 9.Qa5+ Kd4 10.Qxa4 Kc3 11.Qa3+ Kd4 12.Qxa6 Kc3 13.Qa3+ Kd4 14.Qxa7+ Kd5 15.Qa5+ Kc6 16.Qe5 Kb6 17.Qd5 Kc7 18.Qxc4+ Kd6 19.Qd4+ Ke7 20.Qe5+ Kd7 21.Nb3 Kc6 22.Nd4+ Kd7 23.Qe6+ Kc7 24.Qc6+ Kd8 25.Qb7 Ke8 26.Nf5 Kd8 27.Qe7+ Kc8 28.Nd6+ Kb8 29.Qb7+
 46/69	07&#58;43	 8 951 870k	19 316k	+M28	1. ... Rg4 2.Qxh6+ Kg3 3.g7 c3 4.Qe3+ Kh4 5.Qe7+ Kh5 6.Qe8+ Kh4 7.g8Q Rxg8 8.Qxg8 Kh5 9.Qf7+ Kg5 10.Qxc7 Kg6 11.Qc6+ Kf5 12.Qxc3 Ke6 13.Qc6+ Ke5 14.Qxa6 Bh2 15.Qxa7 Ke6 16.Qxa4 Be5 17.Qc6+ Ke7 18.Nb3 Kf7 19.Nc5 Ba1 20.Qb7+ Kf6 21.Qa6+ Ke5 22.Qxa1+ Kd6 23.Nd3 Ke7 24.Qe5+ Kd7 25.Qf6 Kc8 26.Nc5 Kc7 27.Kxf2

Thanks for this Forced Mate in #28.
I honestly felt 1.Qxg7 is the correct first move, because that's the move with
best score for engines. But I noticed that the K of black would go out and
the variation tree would explode and become very complex, so I just followed the Blathy
reqular pattern which also fits the tag of the puzzle which states #66. But
thanks for this proof of a cook which mates in less than half of what is stated as #66.

regards,

MikeGL · Post by **MikeGL** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:17 pm

Saw this one at yacpdb site with no solution posted.

[d]8/2pB1b2/1pP1p1p1/pPb1PkP1/2p2P2/4nK2/p1N1P3/8 w - - 0 1
White to Play, Mate in #50 /source: yacpdb

[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "2017.07.10"]
[Round "?"]
[White "McBrain_2017"]
[Black "McBrain_2017"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "0+2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/2pB1b2/1pP1p1p1/pPb1PkP1/2p2P2/4nK2/p1N1P3/8 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "99"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. Bc8 Be8 2. Ba6 Bf7 3. Bb7 Be8 4. Bc8 Bf7 5. Bd7 Bg8 6. Be8 Bh7 7. Bf7 a4
8. Be8 Bg8 9. Bd7 Bf7 10. Bc8 Be8 11. Ba6 Bf7 12. Bb7 Be8 13. Bc8 Bf7 14.
Bd7 Bg8 15. Be8 Bh7 16. Bf7 a3 17. Be8 Bg8 18. Bd7 Bf7 19. Bc8 Be8 20. Ba6
Bf7 21. Bb7 Be8 22. Bc8 Bf7 23. Bd7 Bg8 24. Be8 Bh7 25. Bf7 c3 26. Be8 Bg8
27. Bd7 Bf7 28. Bc8 Be8 29. Ba6 Bf7 30. Bb7 Be8 31. Bc8 Bf7 32. Bd7 Bg8 33.
Be8 Bh7 34. Bf7 a1=Q 35. Nxa1 c2 36. Nxc2 a2 37. Be8 Bg8 38. Bd7 Bf7 39.
Bc8 Be8 40. Ba6 Bf7 41. Bb7 Bg8 42. Bc8 Bf7 43. Bd7 Bg8 44. Be8 Bh7 45. Bf7
a1=Q 46. Nxa1 Bf8 47. Nc2 Bc5 48. Ne1 Bg8 {(48. ... Nd5 49.e4+) -M2/4 0}
49. Ng2 Nxg2 50. e4#
[/pgn]

Haven't verified with strong engines if there's a cook,
whether #50 can be reduced or not.
Can't find any possible solutions online.

regards

Dann Corbit · Post by **Dann Corbit** » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:34 pm

See also:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... pid=573777

and :

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 86&t=64593

MikeGL · Post by **MikeGL** » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:25 am

Dann Corbit wrote:See also:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... pid=573777

and :

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 86&t=64593

Thanks for the links and new shorter solutions you've provided.
Those were new solutions for me.

Here's Mate in 52 from ChestUCI.epd position 6322
[d]R7/pbk3p1/q1r3P1/brp5/1pP1Q3/1Pp1p3/K1P1P3/1B6 w - - 0 1
White to Play, Mate in 52
Source ChestUCI.epd /position 6322

[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Round "?"]
[White "McBrain_2017"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "0+2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "R7/pbk3p1/q1r3P1/brp5/1pP1Q3/1Pp1p3/K1P1P3/1B6 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "65"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]
[Comment "bm #52"]

1. Qe7+ Kb6 2. Qd8+ Rc7 3. Rb8 Kc6 4. Qd5+ Kb6 5. Qd6+ Rc6 6. Qd8+ Rc7 7.
Ka1 Kc6 8. Qd5+ Kb6 9. Qd6+ Rc6 10. Qd8+ Rc7 11. Ba2 Kc6 12. Qd5+ Kb6 13.
Qd6+ Rc6 14. Qd8+ Rc7 15. Kb1 Kc6 16. Qd5+ Kb6 17. Qd6+ Rc6 18. Qd8+ Rc7
19. Kc1 Kc6 20. Qd5+ Kb6 21. Qd6+ Rc6 22. Qd8+ Rc7 23. Kd1 Kc6 24. Qd5+ Kb6
25. Qd6+ Rc6 26. Qd8+ Rc7 27. Ke1 Kc6 28. Qd5+ Kb6 29. Qd6+ Rc6 30. Qd8+
Rc7 31. Kf1 Kc6 32. Qd5+ Kb6 33. Qd6+ {same pattern until K of white reaches d5 square to assist 51...Kc6 52.Qd6#}
[/pgn]

Quite easy just like the others because of only 1 pattern for Q maneuver.
If pattern is done correctly white will deliver checkmate at exactly move 52.

regards

MikeGL · Post by **MikeGL** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:15 pm

1 pawn vs. 8, and strangely the loner pawn won against 8.
If I remember correctly, I have solved this position previously on my
spare time and posted the solution around 2011 on this forum.

[d]8/p5p1/1pP3p1/p5p1/k3p3/4p3/K7/8 w - - 0 1
White to Play, Mate in 42
ChestUCI.epd position 6279

[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Round "?"]
[White "McBrain_2017"]
[Black "McBrain_2017"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/p5p1/1pP3p1/p5p1/k3p3/4p3/K7/8 w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]
[Comment "bm #42;"]

1. c7 e2 2. c8=Q e1=Q 3. Qc4+ Qb4 4. Qc6+ Qb5 5. Qxe4+ Qb4 6. Qd3 g4 7.
Qd7+ Qb5 8. Qxg4+ Qb4 9. Qd7+ Qb5 10. Qd4+ Qb4 11. Qd3 g5 12. Qd7+ Qb5 13.
Qd4+ Qb4 14. Qd3 g4 15. Qd7+ Qb5 16. Qxg4+ Qb4 17. Qd7+ Qb5 18. Qd4+ Qb4
19. Qd3 g6 20. Qd7+ Qb5 21. Qd4+ Qb4 22. Qd3 g5 23. Qd7+ Qb5 24. Qd4+ Qb4
25. Qd3 g4 26. Qd7+ Qb5 27. Qxg4+ Qb4 28. Qd7+ Qb5 29. Qd4+ Qb4 30. Qd3 a6
31. Qd7+ Qb5 32. Qd4+ Qb4 33. Qd3 Qa3+ 34. Qxa3+ Kb5 35. Qc3 a4 36. Ka3 a5
37. Qc7 Ka6 38. Kxa4 b5+ 39. Kb3 a4+ 40. Kb4 a3 41. Kc5 b4 42. Qb6# 1-0
[/pgn]

regards

MikeGL · Post by **MikeGL** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:20 pm

[d]7n/ppp2p2/2N2Pp1/6B1/8/8/p1p2PKp/rbNk1rbR w - - 0 1
White to Play, Mate in 57
source ChestUCI.epd position: 6330

[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "2017.07.13"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "McBrain_2017"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "0+2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "7n/ppp2p2/2N2Pp1/6B1/8/8/p1p2PKp/rbNk1rbR w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]
[Comment "bm #57;"]

1. Kxf1 bxc6 2. Kg2 Ke1 3. Kf3 Kd1 4. Kg3 Ke1 5. Kg2 Kd1 6. Kf1 c5 7. Kg2
Ke1 8. Kf3 Kd1 9. Kg3 Ke1 10. Kg2 Kd1 11. Kf1 c4 12. Kg2 Ke1 13. Kf3 Kd1
14. Kg3 Ke1 15. Kg2 Kd1 16. Kf1 c3 17. Kg2 Ke1 18. Kf3 Kd1 19. Kg3 Ke1 20.
Kg2 Kd1 21. Kf1 c6 22. Kg2 Ke1 23. Kf3 Kd1 24. Kg3 Ke1 25. Kg2 Kd1 26. Kf1
c5 27. Kg2 Ke1 28. Kf3 Kd1 29. Kg3 Ke1 30. Kg2 Kd1 31. Kf1 c4 32. Kg2 Ke1
33. Kf3 Kd1 34. Kg3 Ke1 35. Kg2 Kd1 36. Kf1 a6 37. Kg2 Ke1 38. Kf3 Kd1 39.
Kg3 Ke1 40. Kg2 Kd1 41. Kf1 a5 42. Kg2 Ke1 43. Kf3 Kd1 44. Kg3 Ke1 45.
Kg2+- {+M12 45...Kd1 46.Kf1 a4}
[/pgn]

Haven't seen this solution elsewhere.

regards

Vinvin · Post by **Vinvin** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:28 pm

MikeGL wrote:[d]7n/ppp2p2/2N2Pp1/6B1/8/8/p1p2PKp/rbNk1rbR w - - 0 1
White to Play, Mate in 57
source ChestUCI.epd position: 6330

[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "Talkchess"]
[Date "2017.07.13"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "McBrain_2017"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "0+2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "7n/ppp2p2/2N2Pp1/6B1/8/8/p1p2PKp/rbNk1rbR w - - 0 1"]
[Termination "unterminated"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]
[Comment "bm #57;"]

1. Kxf1 bxc6 2. Kg2 Ke1 3. Kf3 Kd1 4. Kg3 Ke1 5. Kg2 Kd1 6. Kf1 c5 7. Kg2
Ke1 8. Kf3 Kd1 9. Kg3 Ke1 10. Kg2 Kd1 11. Kf1 c4 12. Kg2 Ke1 13. Kf3 Kd1
14. Kg3 Ke1 15. Kg2 Kd1 16. Kf1 c3 17. Kg2 Ke1 18. Kf3 Kd1 19. Kg3 Ke1 20.
Kg2 Kd1 21. Kf1 c6 22. Kg2 Ke1 23. Kf3 Kd1 24. Kg3 Ke1 25. Kg2 Kd1 26. Kf1
c5 27. Kg2 Ke1 28. Kf3 Kd1 29. Kg3 Ke1 30. Kg2 Kd1 31. Kf1 c4 32. Kg2 Ke1
33. Kf3 Kd1 34. Kg3 Ke1 35. Kg2 Kd1 36. Kf1 a6 37. Kg2 Ke1 38. Kf3 Kd1 39.
Kg3 Ke1 40. Kg2 Kd1 41. Kf1 a5 42. Kg2 Ke1 43. Kf3 Kd1 44. Kg3 Ke1 45.
Kg2+- {+M12 45...Kd1 46.Kf1 a4}
[/pgn]

Haven't seen this solution elsewhere.

regards

Sting-SF 8.5 is very efficient for this one after less than 1 minute of manual learning :

Code: Select all

FEN&#58; 7n/ppp2p2/2N2Pp1/6B1/8/8/p1p2PKp/rbNk1rbR w - - 0 1

Sting-sf-85&#58;
...
 17	00&#58;00	 6 060k	8 371k	+M57	1.Kxf1 bxc6 2.Kg2 Ke1 3.Kf3 Kf1 4.Kg3 Ke1 5.Kg2 Kd1 6.Kf1 a6 7.Kg2 Ke1 8.Kg3 Kd1 9.Kf3 Ke1 10.Kg2 Kd1 11.Kf1 a5 12.Kg2 Ke1 13.Kg3 Kd1 14.Kh3 Ke1 15.Kg2 Kd1 16.Kf1 c5 17.Kg2 Ke1 18.Kf3 Kd1 19.Kg3 Ke1 20.Kg2 Kd1 21.Kf1 a4 22.Kg2 Ke1 23.Kg3 Kf1
 18	00&#58;01	 10 636k	9 044k	+M57	1.Kxf1 bxc6 2.Kg2 Ke1 3.Kf3 Kf1 4.Kg3 Ke1 5.Kg2 Kd1 6.Kf1 a6 7.Kg2 Ke1 8.Kg3 Kd1 9.Kf3 Ke1 10.Kg2 Kd1 11.Kf1 a5 12.Kg2 Ke1 13.Kg3 Kd1 14.Kh3 Ke1 15.Kg2 Kd1 16.Kf1 c5 17.Kg2 Ke1 18.Kf3 Kd1 19.Kg3 Ke1 20.Kg2 Kd1 21.Kf1 a4 22.Kg2 Ke1 23.Kg3 Kf1
 19	00&#58;01	 19 484k	9 840k	+M57	1.Kxf1 bxc6 2.Kg2 Ke1 3.Kf3 Kf1 4.Kg3 Ke1 5.Kg2 Kd1 6.Kf1 a6 7.Kg2 Ke1 8.Kg3 Kd1 9.Kf3 Ke1 10.Kg2 Kd1 11.Kf1 a5 12.Kg2 Ke1 13.Kg3 Kd1 14.Kh3 Ke1 15.Kg2 Kd1 16.Kf1 c5 17.Kg2 Ke1 18.Kf3 Kd1 19.Kg3 Ke1 20.Kg2 Kd1 21.Kf1 a4 22.Kg2 Ke1 23.Kg3 Kf1
 20	00&#58;03	 35 995k	10 287k	+M57	1.Kxf1 bxc6 2.Kg2 Ke1 3.Kf3 Kf1 4.Kg3 Ke1 5.Kg2 Kd1 6.Kf1 a6 7.Kg2 Ke1 8.Kg3 Kd1 9.Kf3 Ke1 10.Kg2 Kd1 11.Kf1 a5 12.Kg2 Ke1 13.Kg3 Kd1 14.Kh3 Ke1 15.Kg2 Kd1 16.Kf1 c5 17.Kg2 Ke1 18.Kf3 Kd1 19.Kg3 Ke1 20.Kg2 Kd1 21.Kf1 a4 22.Kg2 Ke1 23.Kg3 Kf1
 21	00&#58;05	 60 470k	10 515k	+M57	1.Kxf1 bxc6 2.Kg2 Ke1 3.Kf3 Kf1 4.Kg3 Ke1 5.Kg2 Kd1 6.Kf1 a6 7.Kg2 Ke1 8.Kg3 Kd1 9.Kf3 Ke1 10.Kg2 Kd1 11.Kf1 a5 12.Kg2 Ke1 13.Kg3 Kd1 14.Kh3 Ke1 15.Kg2 Kd1 16.Kf1 c5 17.Kg2 Ke1 18.Kf3 Kd1 19.Kg3 Ke1 20.Kg2 Kd1 21.Kf1 a4 22.Kg2 Ke1 23.Kg3 Kf1

Faster Forced Mate

Re: Old theme -Forced Mate#66 source ChestUCI.epd position

Re: Old theme -Forced Mate#66 source ChestUCI.epd position

Re: Faster Forced Mate #120 -position 6381 ChestUCI.epd

Re: Old theme -Forced Mate#66 source ChestUCI.epd position

Re: Mate #50 /source: yacpdb.org

Re: Faster Forced Mate

Re: Forced Mate 52 ChestUCI.epd position 6322

Re: Forced Mate #42 /ChestUCI.epd pos 6279

Re: Forced Mate #57 ChestUCI.epd position 6330

Re: Forced Mate #57 ChestUCI.epd position 6330