another Apple idiocy

[Modern Times]

Apple taught me three things:
- never upgrade xcode
- never upgrade os
- never upgrade anything

Apple taught me one thing: never buy Apple products.

Agreed.

[sje]

Adjusting path is often NOT what you want to do. This lets you hide (unintentionally) real system utilities because you unknowingly chose the same name. Now shell scripts fail. I would NEVER put "." before the normal /bin, /usr/bin, /sbin, and such directories in my path...

Yet if you install MacPorts, $PATH gets /opt/local/bin and /opt/local/sbin prepended.

OS/X 10.7:

Code: Select all

sje$ echo $PATH
/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11/bin

OS/X 10.11:

Code: Select all

sje$ echo $PATH
/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/opt/X11/bin

[mvk]

Yet if you install MacPorts, $PATH gets /opt/local/bin and /opt/local/sbin prepended.

OS/X 10.7:

Code: Select all

sje$ echo $PATH
/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11/bin

OS/X 10.11:

Code: Select all

sje$ echo $PATH
/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/opt/X11/bin

Indeed. And GNU indent is part of Macports. The bottom line is that if you hack your system in such an ugly way, it might not work for ever, but you are probably capable of handling the fall out yourself. News at 11.

This feature has nothing to do with making things "fool proof", but is a defense layer against malware that comes with installers. The filezilla installer from sourceforge comes to mind. Like the strcpy saga, here it is just an excuse to bitch about change.

Boot different.

PS: The relevance of this topic for computer chess has escaped me.

[sje]

An explanatory article concerning Apple's OS/X 10.11, including SIP, the source of Bob's bedevilment: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/09/os ... ca-review/

The question is not really about the usefulness of SIP or how to disable it. More and more, the question is: Do you really own your computer? Are you able to make it run the software you want it to run? Must you first get permission from the manufacturer?

I have a cheap HP notebook I bought a few years ago to run some Windows chess software which would not run under Linux wine emulation. Shortly after the warranty expired, so did the booting ability of the Windows installation and I could not get it working again. Installing Linux was forbidden because of the code signing requirement in the BIOS which would not boot any OS not approved by HP (or maybe Microsoft) -- except after I found the somewhat hidden switch would would deactivate the signature checker.

If the deactivation option wasn't present, as is the case with some computers, then the notebook would have been bricked.

Buying a computer from Apple which won't let you run what you want is like buying a car from Ford which won't let you drive where you want.

[JoshPettus]

I see, but if you need gnu versions of stuff, macports is usually the best rout. Being separate, it gets around messing up your OSX system pretty well. And is easy to uninstall if you need to.

[bob]

Yet if you install MacPorts, $PATH gets /opt/local/bin and /opt/local/sbin prepended.

OS/X 10.7:

Code: Select all

sje$ echo $PATH
/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11/bin

OS/X 10.11:

Code: Select all

sje$ echo $PATH
/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/opt/X11/bin

Indeed. And GNU indent is part of Macports. The bottom line is that if you hack your system in such an ugly way, it might not work for ever, but you are probably capable of handling the fall out yourself. News at 11.

This feature has nothing to do with making things "fool proof", but is a defense layer against malware that comes with installers. The filezilla installer from sourceforge comes to mind. Like the strcpy saga, here it is just an excuse to bitch about change.

Boot different.

PS: The relevance of this topic for computer chess has escaped me.

Indent is ALSO part of OS X 10.11...

You can have the "fool-proof" systems if YOU need 'em. _I_ don't. And I do not like wasting time, over and over, on apple nonsense. The strcpy() was an unnecessary waste of time since the code had worked for 25 years. This rootless root is also a waste of time. It took a while to figure out what was wrong, and longer still to figure out how to disable it. I have NEVER had a unix system "invaded", EVER. Not ONE time. And I don't need a rootless system to protect me against that which has never happened.

If YOU want to click on every link you find and get into trouble doing so, go for it. I exercise a little restraint. I need to quickly change a routing table entry. Have to reboot TWICE? Once to disable SIP, once to re-enable it? Shades of MS windows...

Maybe they should have an OS X for dummies, and an OS X for intelligent people?

[JoshPettus]

Well from the developer standpoint, it always does seem like they are tightening the noose and making us jump though all sorts of hoops and general lack of freedom.

But from the stand point of the user, a computer (especially a mac ) is a significant financial investment. Not to mention our work and time is priceless. Anything apple can do to secure that for people is a good thing.
Rootless is no where near as intrusive as gatekeeper. People shouldn't have to mess with their system's files. If they are, 90% of the time there is usually a better way. (Unless they are an apple OS developer)

In your case Bob ,it's really no big deal to create a folder where you want to install commandline programs and export it to path in your bash profile. That's still yours to edit.

[mvk]

The one who convinces someone to take a taste of Apple must be the devil himself.

Oh wait.

[JoshPettus]

Maybe they should have an OS X for dummies, and an OS X for intelligent people?

They do, you can turn this stuff off.

The one who convinces someone to take a taste of Apple must be the devil himself.

Oh wait.

If you're on this thread, you most likely already bit the apple

[bob]

Well from the developer standpoint, it always does seem like they are tightening the noose and making us jump though all sorts of hoops and general lack of freedom.

But from the stand point of the user, a computer (especially a mac ) is a significant financial investment. Not to mention our work and time is priceless. Anything apple can do to secure that for people is a good thing.
Rootless is no where near as intrusive as gatekeeper. People shouldn't have to mess with their system's files. If they are, 90% of the time there is usually a better way. (Unless they are an apple OS developer)

In your case Bob ,it's really no big deal to create a folder where you want to install commandline programs and export it to path in your bash profile. That's still yours to edit.

As I said, quickly change a route. Edit a config file. I do this stuff regularly. I don't want an idiot-proof system, I want one that works. When was the last time you saw a unix box get compromised? If you have seen one, which user screwed up and let their password leak out?