another Apple idiocy

[bob]

I've upgraded my iMac and macbook to El Capitan. First thing I discover is El Capitan has a "rootless" concept that protects much of the system from modification. Apple releases a broken "indent" program in /usr/bin, I installed a legit GNU indent, but my path intentionally has /usr/bin before other directories. So It still ran the apple indent. I thought "aha, I will just do a quick "mv indent indent.osx" in the /usr/bin directory and that will fix it. Wrong. Can't change /usr/bin even as root. Finally figured out that apple had introduced this "rootless" crap in El Capitan, under the guise of "system integrity protection". Have to go to the recovery boot (cmd-R), open a terminal, and enter a command to disable this nonsense, followed by a reboot. I am now running that way.

Just as annoying as SELinux security stuff. If they would just ship a machine with NO operating system or code of any kind, it would be the ultimate "secure system" where nobody could screw it up. It is already screwed up.

[hgm]

What did you expect? When your marketing strategy is to sell computers to idiots, you have to make them do idiotic things to become a success.

You are just to clever...

[mar]

Apple taught me three things:
- never upgrade xcode
- never upgrade os
- never upgrade anything

[sje]

Surely Apple has made plenty of screw-ups, but is this one so bad? I have sudo to do what I need to do with system modifications, and I can (and do) adjust $PATH to side-step what needs to be avoided.

[JoshPettus]

@Robert shouldn't user installed programs go into /usr/local/bin? I didn't think you were suppose to touch /usr/bin; apparently apple doesn't think so either.

I made sure to try xboard with the new OS, still works. Rootless doesn't appear to get in the way, which I'm thankful for. They tweaked the fullscreen system so it goes into fullscreen rather then just maximize the window. As long as you have your windows open before you go into fullscreen mode, you're ok. (and turn off top level so they carry through). But if you start opening windows/menus while in fullscreen mode you can get some strange wonkyness and even crashes which force osx to log out.
I have no idea what to do about it, as it's entirely controlled by OS. Just go back to window mode before opening too many windows...I was happy with just the maximize.

[bob]

Surely Apple has made plenty of screw-ups, but is this one so bad? I have sudo to do what I need to do with system modifications, and I can (and do) adjust $PATH to side-step what needs to be avoided.

Try using sudo to modify ANY files in /bin, or /usr/bin, and so forth.

When I say "rootless" it has a root account. But UID 0 does NOT have root privileges. This is absolutely horrible for anyone that knows anything about actually using a unix system. Apple is trying to make it fool-proof. They are making it non-functional.

Adjusting path is often NOT what you want to do. This lets you hide (unintentionally) real system utilities because you unknowingly chose the same name. Now shell scripts fail. I would NEVER put "." before the normal /bin, /usr/bin, /sbin, and such directories in my path...

[bob]

@Robert shouldn't user installed programs go into /usr/local/bin? I didn't think you were suppose to touch /usr/bin; apparently apple doesn't think so either.

I made sure to try xboard with the new OS, still works. Rootless doesn't appear to get in the way, which I'm thankful for. They tweaked the fullscreen system so it goes into fullscreen rather then just maximize the window. As long as you have your windows open before you go into fullscreen mode, you're ok. (and turn off top level so they carry through). But if you start opening windows/menus while in fullscreen mode you can get some strange wonkyness and even crashes which force osx to log out.
I have no idea what to do about it, as it's entirely controlled by OS. Just go back to window mode before opening too many windows...I was happy with just the maximize.

I installed a custom "indent" (gnu project) which went into /usr/local/bin. But there is a bad one in /usr/bin. But I do not want /usr/local/bin first in my path as that will break a shell script here and there.

root can't do anything useful now. You can turn it off, but it is not easy to figure out what is wrong when you first try to change any system files at all.

[bob]

Surely Apple has made plenty of screw-ups, but is this one so bad? I have sudo to do what I need to do with system modifications, and I can (and do) adjust $PATH to side-step what needs to be avoided.

Try using sudo to modify ANY files in /bin, or /usr/bin, and so forth.

When I say "rootless" it has a root account. But UID 0 does NOT have root privileges. This is absolutely horrible for anyone that knows anything about actually using a unix system. Apple is trying to make it fool-proof. They are making it non-functional.

Adjusting path is often NOT what you want to do. This lets you hide (unintentionally) real system utilities because you unknowingly chose the same name. Now shell scripts fail. I would NEVER put "." before the normal /bin, /usr/bin, /sbin, and such directories in my path...

[lucasart]

Apple taught me three things:
- never upgrade xcode
- never upgrade os
- never upgrade anything

Apple taught me one thing: never buy Apple products.

[Rebel]

Apple taught me three things:
- never upgrade xcode
- never upgrade os
- never upgrade anything

I bought their first Ipod with touch screen, a sensation at that time. Downloaded paid music from their webstore and the MP3's had some sort of copy protection in order you could only play it on the Ipod. It was the first and last Apple product I ever bought, what a guys...