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60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s
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Uri Blass



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 5958
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel
PostPost subject: Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s    Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:43 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sedat Canbaz wrote:
carldaman wrote:
Hi Sedat,

If I may make a friendly suggestion -- at some point you may want to put together a book that has more variety, but at the expense of being less perfect, where some lines such as 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 and others that we know from general opening theory to be playable (for ex. the Philidor, Old Indian) can be included. Of course, you would still exclude lines that are outright busted/unplayable. You can call it a Variety book if you like.

That way testers can test with your Perfect book, and then test with the expanded Variety book as well, for better comparison.

Thank you for your very good work!
Carl


Dear Carl,

Not at all...

Thanks too for your useful comments

Yes...your idea sounds not bad,actually i was considering about releasing such varied neutral short book

But later i've changed my mind and do you know why,see below please

If we will start testing the engines with such various openings,then the game results will be look like more interesting,more exiting...
But then i am afraid that we will need to run minimum 3.000 - 5.000 games per player

For example,1000 games (per player) are enough data to show the real strength,if the engines are using Perfect 2012b version

Plus in case of releasing a such varied book,many engines Elo standings will be effected

Probably such varied book will be a good idea,if we start completely new testing or rating list (with new conditions)

Of course,i agree with you that those engines,which can play this type of disadvantage positions should be rewarded for it

But unfortunately,there are some opening positions, where mostly of the engines are falling in real trouble

And i think its a mistake and injustice,if we will allow the engines to be tested in such critical positions

Note also that almost all Top Human Players or Top Book Makers dont prefer various openings,each of them has own favorite lines
I think the answer is no so hard to know about why they prefer not varied openings...


Best,
Sedat


I am not sure what do you mean by the real strength of the engines.
You can show only an estimate for the rating of the engines in specific conditions(rating in specific conditions is not real strength and if you change the opening the order of the engines may be different).

Maybe the possible error is going to be higher if you include some
openings but I do not think that it is a good reason not to include the relevant openings.

My opinion is that
the right solution to reduce the error in the estimate
is simply to play from fixed positions when all engines play the same number of games against every opponent with the same openings(white or black).

I see no reason not to include the Bb4 line of the french.
Maybe games from this line are not going to add much because in most cases white wins but I do not believe that you are going to need 3000-5000 games for the same statistical error that you get today by 1000 games.

Maybe you are going to need 1100 games for the same statistical error because most opening are not opening of the same type of the Bb4 french
and even if you play the Bb4 french the demage is limited by the fact that every engine play it the same percentage of times against other and every engine play it with both colors.
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Subject Author Date/Time
60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:59 pm
      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Gabriel LEPERLIER Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:17 pm
      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Jon Dart Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:03 pm
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Louis Zulli Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:24 pm
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:58 pm
      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Maurizio Maglio Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:51 pm
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:09 pm
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:19 am
                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:54 am
                              Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:44 pm
                                    Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:38 pm
                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:59 pm
                                                Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:14 pm
                                                      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:36 pm
                                                            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Kai Laskos Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:30 pm
                                                                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:09 pm
                                                                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Kai Laskos Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:32 pm
                                                                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:35 pm
                                                                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:46 pm
                                                                              Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:13 pm
                                                                                    Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:21 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:00 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:30 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Jeroen Noomen Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:20 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:13 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:30 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:00 pm
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:14 am
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:25 am
      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Larry Kaufman Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:16 am
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Maurizio Maglio Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:05 am
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:04 am
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Larry Kaufman Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:49 pm
                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:55 pm
                              Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:37 pm
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:17 pm
                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Larry Kaufman Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:22 pm
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:32 am
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Larry Kaufman Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:29 pm
      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s John Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:30 pm
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Larry Kaufman Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:24 pm
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:34 pm
                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Larry Kaufman Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:55 pm
                              Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Ed Schroder Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:44 am
                                    Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:48 am
                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:05 am
                                                Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:27 am
                                                      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Kai Laskos Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:06 am
                                                            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:45 am
                                                                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:01 pm
                                                                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Kai Laskos Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:26 pm
                                                                              Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:46 pm
                                                                                    Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s M ANSARI Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:19 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:42 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:52 am
                                                                                    Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Lucas Braesch Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:09 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:32 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Larry Kaufman Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:15 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:28 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:22 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sven Schüle Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:59 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:46 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:20 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:11 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Carl Langan Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:53 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:43 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:17 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Carl Langan Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:38 pm
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:09 am
                                                                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:01 am
                                                Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Dr.Wael Deeb Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:43 am
                                                      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:53 am
                                                            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:12 am
                                                                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:31 am
                                                                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:38 am
                                                                              Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:47 am
                                                            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Lucas Braesch Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:32 am
                                                                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Sedat Canbaz Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:38 am
                                                Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:01 am
                                                      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:28 am
                                                            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:31 am
                                                                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:05 pm
                                                                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:30 pm
                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Jeroen Noomen Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:00 am
      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:41 am
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Dr.Wael Deeb Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:43 am
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Marek Kwiatkowski Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:24 am
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Günther Wittwar Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:28 am
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Marek Kwiatkowski Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:37 am
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Carl Langan Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:51 pm
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Nelson Hernandez Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:26 am
      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:57 am
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Dr.Wael Deeb Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:40 pm
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Julien MARCEL Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:30 pm
                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Dr.Wael Deeb Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:34 pm
                              Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Nelson Hernandez Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:15 am
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Marek Kwiatkowski Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:35 pm
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Jon Dart Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:06 pm
      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:36 am
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Ray Banks Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:12 pm
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:07 pm
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Larry Kaufman Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:40 pm
                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Kai Laskos Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:51 pm
                              Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:01 pm
                                    Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Kai Laskos Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:57 pm
                              Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Larry Kaufman Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:02 pm
                                    Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:21 pm
                                          Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:32 pm
                                                Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:49 pm
                                                      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Uri Blass Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:54 pm
                                                            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:19 pm
                                                            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Bram Mourik Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:35 pm
                                    Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Ed Schroder Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:39 pm
            Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Robert Houdart Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:42 pm
                  Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:00 pm
                        Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Bram Mourik Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:54 am
      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Jeroen Noomen Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:59 am
      Re: 60 games Komodo 5 against Top4 at 120m+3s Timo Klaustermeyer Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:16 pm
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