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Chess for Android upcoming network feature
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Daniel Shawul



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 2186
Location: Ethiopia
PostPost subject: Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature    Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:03 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
hgm wrote:
Daniel Shawul wrote:
Well p2p connection is not merely to match two chess engines. What about two human players ? Human vs engine ? Human vs Epd test etc.. So with all these combinations it is much simpler to have a socket connection between the two GUI's rather than two participants so that all the features of the GUI become immediately accessible.


It does not matter what is at the other end of the GUIs.You can have

Human1 <--> GUI1 <--> Adapter1 <===> Adapter2 <--> GUI2 <--> Human2

just as easily as

Engine1 <--> GUI1 <--> Adapter1 <===> Adapter2 <--> GUI2 <--> Engine2

or

Human <--> GUI1 <--> Adapter1 <===> Adapter2 <--> GUI2 <--> Engine

The reason for doing it this way is not simplicity, but universality. The scheme

You miss my point completely. I already said that is how you communicate but that is what makes it exactly part of the GUI! Now you are talking to two adapters directly so now if two engines with different protocols (say Winboard and Uci) are communicating one adapter has to tell the other to start polyglot and then that tells it to GUI. Or it can start it itself but that would be duplicated work since both GUI and Adapter have the same code now. Now that is the easiest case if you add human, epds etc the adapter has to do far more management operations. But you have that in the GUI already which would become accessible directly if you did p2p with the GUI. You do need those features in the GUI when you are not using p2p. It sounds more like the Referee engine which does many things on behalf of the GUI but we had solid reason for that i.e to enable engine authors to write an adapter for any game. But work is not duplicated between GUI and referee unlike the new case.
Quote:

Player1 <--> GUI1 <===> GUI2 <--> Player2

works only if both GUI1 and GUI2 support the same p2p protocol <===>. In practice this will mean they have to be the same GUI, with only a very small subset of all GUIs bein able to do it. With the adapter-mediated scheme any existing GUI can be used on either side (as long as it can run a normal WB engine). So one side could use SCID vs PC, the other Arena. Or one side could use BCMshogi and the other WinBoard.

The p2p protocol can remain private to the adapters, but of course it could be made public so that newer GUIs could support it directly, if they want to. (To no noticeable advantage of their user, if an adapter exists for their platform.) They can then do

Player1 <--> GUI1 <===> Adapter2 <--> GUI2 <--> Player2

Arena vs Scid is something new. But still you can have whatever you will have in the adapter, part of the GUI , and avoid messages like "tell GUI to update position" from the adapter, and directly update board instead. There is no reason for separateing GUI and adapter unlike the case of the referee engine.
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Display posts from previous:   
Subject Author Date/Time
Chess for Android upcoming network feature Aart Bik Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:41 pm
      Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:31 am
            Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Folkert van Heusden Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:47 am
                  Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:38 am
                        Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Folkert van Heusden Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:01 am
                              Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:27 am
                                    Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Folkert van Heusden Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:39 am
                                          Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:59 am
                                                Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Folkert van Heusden Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:06 am
                                                      Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Mehrmann Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:21 am
                                                            Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:37 am
                              Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Shawul Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:40 am
                        Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Don Dailey Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:12 pm
                              Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Don Dailey Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:21 pm
            Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Aart Bik Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:20 pm
      Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Aart Bik Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:48 pm
            Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:33 pm
                  Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Shawul Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:54 pm
      Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Aart Bik Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:43 pm
            Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:16 pm
                  Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Shawul Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:14 pm
                        Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:28 pm
                              Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Shawul Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:26 pm
                                    Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:01 am
                                          Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Shawul Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:03 pm
                                                Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:59 pm
                                                      Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Shawul Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:53 pm
                                                            Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:34 am
                                                                  Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Shawul Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:14 pm
                                                                        Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:37 pm
                                                                              Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Shawul Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:53 pm
                                                                                    Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Shawul Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:48 pm
                                                                                          Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature H.G.Muller Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:14 am
                                                                        Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Aart Bik Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:36 pm
            Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Daniel Shawul Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:55 pm
      Re: Chess for Android upcoming network feature Aart Bik Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:35 am
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