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how to measure frequency of hash collisions.
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Don Dailey



Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 4493
PostPost subject: Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions.    Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:08 am Reply to topic Reply with quote
kbhearn wrote:
I think what he's getting at is that by generating the extra bits in a different way you make it unlikely that both types of bits will have the same type of weakness (i.e. they both may generate more collisions than you want, but it's unlikely they'll collide under the same sort of changes).

The independent hashes do not correct each other - this is not a case of combining two RNGs to get a single improved one. If the 4 bit generator sucks then having a good 60 bit generator does not make the frequency test "more accurate" because it's only the 4 bit quality that has any impact on how good the measurement is.

Whether the 60 bit numbers are good or bad has no impact on the quality of the test. The 4 bit numbers do.

If it makes you feel secure, then just use my idea but generate the 4 bits differently and combine them into a single 64 bit number with 60 bit generator.
Quote:


Also you may not want to generate all your bits using the second generator because your second generator might be slow - i.e. you could feed your entire set of bitboards or your mailbox into something like murmur for a verification that doesn't depend on whatever you're using to generate zobrist keys.

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Subject Author Date/Time
how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:45 pm
      Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Marcel van Kervinck Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:25 pm
            Some tests: Attn Don Daniel Shawul Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:25 pm
                  Re: Some tests: Attn Don Daniel Shawul Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:15 pm
      Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:17 pm
            Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:05 pm
                  Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:23 pm
                        Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:29 pm
                        Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:06 pm
                              Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Don Dailey Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:39 pm
                                    Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Kevin Hearn Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:50 pm
                                          Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Don Dailey Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:08 am
                                          Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:40 am
                                    Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:54 pm
                                          Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Don Dailey Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:23 am
                                    Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Marcel van Kervinck Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:55 am
                  Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Don Dailey Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:26 am
      Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Ed Schroder Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:36 pm
            Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:01 pm
      Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. H.G.Muller Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:12 pm
            Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:31 pm
            Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:00 am
                  Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Rémi Coulom Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:30 am
                        Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:49 am
                        Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:58 pm
                              Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Ronald de Man Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:41 pm
                                    Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:58 pm
                                          Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Ronald de Man Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:06 pm
                                                Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:57 pm
      Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Lucas Braesch Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:02 am
            Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Ronald de Man Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:08 pm
            Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:12 pm
                  Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Ronald de Man Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:14 pm
                        Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Daniel Shawul Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:01 pm
      Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Joshua Shriver Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:45 pm
            Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Ronald de Man Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:44 pm
                  Re: how to measure frequency of hash collisions. Joshua Shriver Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:51 am
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