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Daniel Shawul
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 2187
Location: Ethiopia
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 Post subject: Re: Zobrist alternative? Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:35 pm |
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Hmm you seem to be missing a whole lot of the discussion that was going on.
| Quote: |
Hi, just try it.
I'm rotating the sq random number by a small prime lookuped for piece and vice versa. Maybe you missed this detail.
And then we add up this after 2 rotations.
So effectively we're having a bitresult of a multiplication in a field.
HGM wanted to avoid 5MB lookup to generate his Zobrist key and this definitely does with such tiny lookup tables of just a few kilobyte
HGM wanted to avoid lookup of a double array, not single array.
double array is [piece][sq]
this is however single lookups of just [piece] and [sq]
We CAN use looking up piece and sq in a table,
we just can't afford a table sized sq * piece, that's all
Bottomline is that what i posted here is factors faster than the multiplication you proposed.
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I didn't. HGM did use separate tables for piece and sq saving significantly on table size and used multiplication as well. But I suggested addition, try and beat that  As Don explained, we are now trying to avoid table look ups all in all, as the matter is settled anyway if you have hahskeys for [piece] and [sq]. The RanRot code you gave keeps two previously generated keys to generate the next random number unlike rand() which only keeps one. Bear in mind that this is not _sequential_ random number generation. I am sure the FNV method will work fine if executed sequentially. But the point is to generate a random looking hash key for a given piece_on_square without previous knowlege. So the seed for each square should be different which I tried to vary rotating a single 64 bit hash key. When the number of squares is high (36x36) it might require additional keys to be stored unless other mixing operations are done on the same key to avoid a need for that ...
| Quote: |
As the lookups probably can get prefetched what i posted is under 2 clocks and will keep just 3 execution units busy for 1 cycle
So throughput latency is 1 cycle, not counting the prefetch of the L1.
What you posted is maybe 5 cycles throughput or so?
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| Subject |
Author |
Date/Time |
 Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:35 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Kevin Hearn |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:44 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:19 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:54 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:46 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:24 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:14 am |
| ignored idea here |
Daniel Shawul |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:00 pm |
| Re: ignored idea here |
Daniel Shawul |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:30 am |
| Re: ignored idea here |
H.G.Muller |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:50 am |
| Re: ignored idea here |
Daniel Shawul |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:52 pm |
| Re: ignored idea here |
Edmund Moshammer |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:21 am |
| Re: ignored idea here |
Edmund Moshammer |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:27 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Wylie Garvin |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:27 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:36 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:01 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Wylie Garvin |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:57 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:42 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Robert Hyatt |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:17 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:17 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Wylie Garvin |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:11 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:05 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Reinhard Scharnagl |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:52 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Edmund Moshammer |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:58 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Reinhard Scharnagl |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:49 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Edmund Moshammer |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:15 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Reinhard Scharnagl |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:41 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Edmund Moshammer |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:55 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Reinhard Scharnagl |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:03 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:19 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:44 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:48 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:28 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:01 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:42 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:51 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:27 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:29 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Karlo Bala Jr. |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:50 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Reinhard Scharnagl |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:49 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:09 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:11 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:12 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:46 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:38 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:57 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:39 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:46 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:22 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
H.G.Muller |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:38 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:17 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:04 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:00 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:27 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:16 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:42 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:14 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:59 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:17 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:28 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:30 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:09 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:22 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:42 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:54 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:03 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:08 am |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:03 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:55 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:21 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:25 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:44 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:35 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:11 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:15 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:56 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:05 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:10 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:22 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:29 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:35 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:39 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:49 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:35 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:11 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:13 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:19 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:29 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Vincent Diepeveen |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:32 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:19 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:50 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Daniel Shawul |
Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:25 pm |
| Re: Zobrist alternative? |
Don Dailey |
Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:21 pm |
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