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Did Anand miss a win in Game 3?
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Eelco de Groot



Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 2591
Location: Groningen
PostPost subject: Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3?    Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:01 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
Eelco de Groot wrote:
At depth 28 the eval has gone up a little. It could be, with mainly Rooks involved a situation where you can only make small progress, I don't know. Most of the players here will be stronger than me and certainly Robert he is a 2100+ Fide rating. But regarding the output, combined with the usual variation in scores, I don't think I can see it just letting the program add one more iteration. But I will try at least to go to depth 29, may take a few hours though, because this is with just 256 Mb hash, 75 % of the Q6700 available. If you go too deep, > 1000 minutes I think the reliability of the hash contents is not so good anymore, so the usefullness of 31+ iterations is a bit doubtful in itself. With very good position learning learning or maybe separate storage of PV nodes in their own transposition table maybe that could be improved. That is just a hypothesis though.


28/72 87:18 +1.32++ 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rb2+ 36.Kc1 Rxa2
37.Rc7 f4 38.Rxb7 (14.442.826.367) 2756

28/72 118:45 +1.40 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 (19.804.729.682) 2779


In the commentary to the fourth game today, Jan timman was of the opinion that there was not a forced winning line, at least he did not see it in his own analysis. But not sure he reads Talkchess comments on a regular basis, just talking about his own analysis and other comments he found on the net. But he thinks Gelfand would have been able to find the line he talked about that gives a draw, with the time remaining. There was no analysis board visible so I'm not quite clear exactly what line he had looked at, Dirk Jan mentioned they could not show it right at that moment but that the experts would probably be able to figure it out. I stopped my own computer from the start position, the eval went up at first but the last two iterations clearly went lower again. Luckily there where not yet the very strange scores (
Code:



1r3rk1/2q1bp1p/p2p2p1/1p1Qp1Pn/4B3/2P1BP2/PP5P/1K1R2R1 w - -

Engine: Rainbow Serpent 2.2.4 Build 055 (256 MB)
by Tord Romstad, Marco Costalba and Joona

31     1712:09-0.11++  22.a3 (198.620.587.856) 1933

30     1712:09+M0--    22.Rg2 Rfd8 23.h4 (198.620.587.856) 1933

30     1712:09-0.27    22.Bc2 Qb7 23.Qxb7 Rxb7 24.Bb3 Rc7
                       25.Bd5 (198.620.587.856) 1933

best move: a2-a3 time: 1971:32.126 min  n/s: 1.933.424  nodes: 198.620.587.856
)
that I saw the other day in Multivariation analysis of another position, the Pro Deo - Rybka game this is, I don't quite trust that Multi PV yet, clearly something is wrong here but I have not seen this in a regular PV, this is I think again a Fail Low PV that has gone bust. But here in Anand - Gelfand's game three everything still seems okay..

Eelco

28/72 87:18 +1.32++ 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rb2+ 36.Kc1 Rxa2
37.Rc7 f4 38.Rxb7 (14.442.826.367) 2756

28/72 118:45 +1.40 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 (19.804.729.682) 2779

29/72 269:33 +1.47 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rxc4 36.bxc4 Rb2+
37.Kxb2 (47.546.692.077) 2939

30/72 291:12 +1.36 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rxc4 36.bxc4 h5
37.Kc1 Rd4 38.Kb2 Kf6 39.Rh7 Ke6
40.f4 Rxd7 41.Rh6+ Kf7 42.Kc3 Kg7
43.Rxh5 Kg6 44.Rg5+ Kf6 45.Rg8 Rd6
46.Rf8+ Kg6 47.Rc8 (51.290.942.363) 2935

31/78 1092:03+1.43 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rc3 36.d8Q Rxc4
37.Qxd2 (204.032.919.938) 3113

32/85 1485:25+1.52++ 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 (272.526.707.606) 3057

32/87 1606:48+1.59 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rxc4 36.bxc4 Rd3
37.Kc1 (294.694.110.043) 3056

33/87 1685:54+1.67 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rxc4 36.bxc4 h5
37.Kc1 Rd4 38.Kc2 Kf6 (307.446.583.094) 3039

34/87 1849:43+1.24-- 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rxc4 36.bxc4 h5
37.Kc1 Rd4 (336.160.546.661) 3028

34/87 1921:03+1.16-- 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rxc4 36.bxc4 h5 (348.599.385.089) 3024

34/87 2121:25+1.37 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rxc4 36.bxc4 h5
37.Kc1 Rd4 38.Kb2 Kf6 39.Rh7 Ke6
40.f4 Rxd7 41.Rh6+ Kf7 42.Kc3 Kg7
43.Rxh5 Kg6 44.Rh3 Rd6 45.Rg3+ Kf6
46.Rd3 Re6 (383.107.933.717) 3009

35/87 2128:17+1.37 34.d7 Rcc2 35.Rc4 Rxc4 36.bxc4 h5
37.Kc1 Rd4 38.Kb2 Kf6 39.Rh7 Ke6
40.f4 Rxd7 41.Rh6+ Kf7 42.Kc3 Kg7
43.Rxh5 Kg6 44.Rh3 Rd6 45.Rg3+ Kf6
46.Rd3 Re6 (384.196.560.272) 3008

best move: d6-d7 time: 2532:21.246 min n/s: 3.008.647 nodes: 384.196.560.272

Here I stopped, and glad I could at least get a depth 35 iteration without such strange Fail Low output Smile (Just for the record, I saw something like this with Stockfish 2.2.2 a few days ago as well, so this is not just restricted to Rainbow Serpent. Only thing I can say the "pattern" seems to be with Fail Lows and Fail Highs. But I have no real idea what could cause this, I am sorry if I can't offer anything more constructive, I would if I knew.)

Eelco
_________________
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
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Subject Author Date/Time
Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Robert Houdart Mon May 14, 2012 6:18 pm
      Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Dr.Wael Deeb Mon May 14, 2012 6:38 pm
            Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Günther Wittwar Mon May 14, 2012 8:22 pm
                  Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Dr.Wael Deeb Mon May 14, 2012 8:59 pm
      Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Mc Mad Mon May 14, 2012 6:45 pm
            Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Dr.Wael Deeb Mon May 14, 2012 7:03 pm
                  Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Gabriel LEPERLIER Mon May 14, 2012 7:17 pm
                        Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Gabriel LEPERLIER Mon May 14, 2012 7:25 pm
                        Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Dr.Wael Deeb Mon May 14, 2012 7:27 pm
                              Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? kgburcham Mon May 14, 2012 8:14 pm
                                    Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Dr.Wael Deeb Mon May 14, 2012 9:05 pm
                                          Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? kgburcham Mon May 14, 2012 9:26 pm
                                                Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Dr.Wael Deeb Mon May 14, 2012 9:39 pm
      Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? kgburcham Mon May 14, 2012 6:59 pm
      Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Jesús Muñoz Mon May 14, 2012 7:08 pm
      Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Eelco de Groot Mon May 14, 2012 7:16 pm
            Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Eelco de Groot Mon May 14, 2012 10:00 pm
                  Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Eelco de Groot Wed May 16, 2012 2:01 pm
      Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Jeffrey Hall Mon May 14, 2012 7:40 pm
            Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Jouni Uski Mon May 14, 2012 7:47 pm
            Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Robert Houdart Mon May 14, 2012 7:49 pm
                  Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Marcel van Kervinck Mon May 14, 2012 10:19 pm
                        Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Robert Houdart Mon May 14, 2012 10:39 pm
                              Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Robert Houdart Mon May 14, 2012 11:20 pm
                                    Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Dan Andersson Mon May 14, 2012 11:49 pm
                                          Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Robert Houdart Tue May 15, 2012 12:22 am
                                                Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Robert Houdart Tue May 15, 2012 12:44 am
                                                      Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? kgburcham Tue May 15, 2012 4:31 am
                                                      Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Mc Mad Tue May 15, 2012 6:28 am
                                                            Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Mc Mad Tue May 15, 2012 7:03 am
                                                                  Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Robert Houdart Tue May 15, 2012 7:54 am
                                                                        Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Rolf Tue May 15, 2012 11:41 am
                                                                              Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Robert Houdart Tue May 15, 2012 12:27 pm
                                                                                    Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Rolf Tue May 15, 2012 2:13 pm
                                                                              Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Steven Atkinson Wed May 16, 2012 8:16 pm
                                                                                    Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Julien MARCEL Wed May 16, 2012 8:18 pm
                                                                                    Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? David Shanholtzer Wed May 16, 2012 8:24 pm
                                                                                          Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Laurence Chen Thu May 17, 2012 6:57 am
                                                                                          Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Rolf Thu May 17, 2012 9:06 am
                                                                                          Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Ted Summers Fri May 18, 2012 1:28 pm
                                    Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? kgburcham Tue May 15, 2012 12:00 am
      Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Mike Scheidl Mon May 14, 2012 7:53 pm
            Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Gabriel LEPERLIER Mon May 14, 2012 8:09 pm
                  Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Mc Mad Mon May 14, 2012 9:04 pm
                        Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? Robert Houdart Mon May 14, 2012 9:21 pm
      Re: Did Anand miss a win in Game 3? kgburcham Mon May 14, 2012 11:11 pm
      Did Anand miss a win in Game 5? Mc Mad Fri May 18, 2012 10:49 am
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