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Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1
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Robert Hyatt



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 15814
Location: Birmingham, AL
PostPost subject: Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1    Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:41 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sven Schüle wrote:
bob wrote:
My experience doing EXACTLY this project (Cray Blitz -> Crafty) says this is the wrong way to do it. You end up debugging code that is going to be thrown away. You first map from 0-63 to 0-127, and then you still have to change the eval and debug it. There are ways of testing the move generator without any eval or search whatsoever. First thing I wrote in Crafty was the move generator. I went no further until it was working correctly.

I suppose one can develop however they want, I'm old enough that I don't want to waste ANY time, for obvious reasons -- one is there is not that much time left to waste. Smile

What is wrong for you is not necessarily wrong for others. In the given case, adding bitboard code to Fruit does not imply "debugging code that is going to be thrown away". Such code would be part of the original Fruit code (mailbox) which we certainly may assume to be sufficiently debugged.


No. The code needed to remap from 0-63 into 0-127...

Not needed. That was the code that I was talking about.

Quote:


The strategy chosen here is one of several valid ways in my opinion, whether you like it or not. Please be aware that this is an "experimental" and "learning" project, not necessarily a "writing a new world class engine" project. As soon as move generation, eval and search are changed such that they no longer use the mailbox board apart from looking up the piece type on an occupied square (which could be done with bitboards as well but is probably a tiny bit faster with a redundant mailbox board), the 16x16 mailbox board can be replaced by a simple 8x8 board, and a lot of unused original Fruit mailbox code can go away. Doing it step by step while keeping the whole program's functionality intact at any time is something I would always recommend, for virtually all kinds of software, when doing a "translation" or "port". Obviously you won't do it like that when you write something completely new, but that is not the given situation.

Most of this translation is merely technical. The interesting part, of course, is to rewrite the evaluation such that it really takes advantage of the bitboard data structures.

Finally, nobody wants you to waste your precious time for that. But in that case I propose not to say "that' wrong what you do" to someone else even though you appear to be not much interested in that project. The other option would be to let others make their own experiences.

Sven


My general approach is to try to point out better ways to do something when it might be helpful. Anyone can choose to accept or ignore any advice I give without fear of anything...

But since I have actually done this once, on a pretty large program, experience is a good teacher...
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Subject Author Date/Time
Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Tue May 08, 2012 3:20 pm
      Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Robert Hyatt Tue May 08, 2012 3:31 pm
            Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Tue May 08, 2012 5:06 pm
                  Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Ronald de Man Tue May 08, 2012 6:43 pm
                  Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Evert Glebbeek Tue May 08, 2012 8:34 pm
                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Tue May 08, 2012 8:41 pm
                  Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Tue May 08, 2012 8:43 pm
                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Tue May 08, 2012 10:09 pm
                              Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Ronald de Man Tue May 08, 2012 10:15 pm
                                    Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Tue May 08, 2012 10:21 pm
                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Ronald de Man Tue May 08, 2012 10:59 pm
                                                Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Wed May 09, 2012 11:33 am
                                                      Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Robert Hyatt Sun May 13, 2012 5:11 pm
                                                            Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Sun May 13, 2012 10:13 pm
                                                                  Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Robert Hyatt Mon May 14, 2012 2:17 am
                                                                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Mon May 14, 2012 10:19 am
                                                                              Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Mon May 14, 2012 10:53 am
                                                                                    Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Mincho Georgiev Mon May 14, 2012 12:19 pm
                                                                                    Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Mon May 14, 2012 12:28 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Mon May 14, 2012 3:10 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Mon May 14, 2012 4:25 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Mon May 14, 2012 4:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Mon May 14, 2012 4:46 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Mon May 14, 2012 5:05 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Mon May 14, 2012 8:51 pm
                                                                                    Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Robert Hyatt Mon May 14, 2012 10:43 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Tue May 15, 2012 5:41 am
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Tue May 15, 2012 2:45 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Tue May 15, 2012 4:04 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Evert Glebbeek Tue May 15, 2012 4:41 pm
                                                                              Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Robert Hyatt Mon May 14, 2012 10:41 pm
                                                                  Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Mincho Georgiev Mon May 14, 2012 6:22 am
                                                Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Robert Hyatt Sun May 13, 2012 5:09 pm
                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Ronald de Man Tue May 08, 2012 10:11 pm
                              Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Tue May 08, 2012 10:18 pm
                  Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Robert Hyatt Sun May 13, 2012 5:14 pm
                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Sun May 13, 2012 6:35 pm
                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Sun May 13, 2012 8:24 pm
                              Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Sun May 13, 2012 10:22 pm
                              Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Mon May 14, 2012 6:56 am
                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Sun May 13, 2012 10:18 pm
      Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Tue May 08, 2012 4:12 pm
      Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Lucas Braesch Wed May 09, 2012 5:01 am
      Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Lucas Braesch Wed May 09, 2012 5:13 am
            Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Wed May 09, 2012 11:35 am
                  Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Wed May 09, 2012 2:50 pm
                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Wed May 09, 2012 2:57 pm
                              Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Wed May 09, 2012 3:27 pm
                                    Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Thu May 10, 2012 1:32 pm
                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Thu May 10, 2012 2:47 pm
                                                Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Thu May 10, 2012 3:11 pm
                                                      Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Thu May 10, 2012 3:14 pm
                                                            Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Thu May 10, 2012 11:06 pm
                                                                  Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Fri May 11, 2012 10:14 am
                                                                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Fri May 11, 2012 10:28 am
                                                                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Lucas Braesch Fri May 11, 2012 11:26 am
                                                                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Sat May 12, 2012 2:06 pm
                                                                              Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Sat May 12, 2012 3:54 pm
                                                                                    Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Evert Glebbeek Sat May 12, 2012 4:20 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Sat May 12, 2012 5:00 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Sat May 12, 2012 5:15 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Sat May 12, 2012 5:32 pm
                                                                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Sat May 12, 2012 8:54 pm
                                                                                    Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Sven Schüle Sat May 12, 2012 5:21 pm
                                                      Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 H.G.Muller Thu May 10, 2012 3:25 pm
                                          Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Matthew R. Brades Thu May 10, 2012 3:06 pm
                                                Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Ronald de Man Thu May 10, 2012 6:42 pm
                        Re: Project help required: Bitboard Fruit 2.1 Lucas Braesch Thu May 10, 2012 10:51 am
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