ChessUSA.com TalkChess.com
Hosted by Your Move Chess & Games
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The evaluation value and value returned by minimax search
Post new topic    TalkChess.com Forum Index -> Computer Chess Club: Programming and Technical Discussions Flat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Vincent Diepeveen



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1738
Location: The Netherlands
PostPost subject: Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc    Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:23 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
[quote="Uri Blass"]
zamar wrote:
diep wrote:

If just 1% of the effort put in computerchess would be put in computer-go, you also easily beat of course any go player with todays hardware that also gets used for computerchess.
[snip]


Quote:

"I disagree"

.. [snip]

You may translate it to some simple non material advantage so simple evaluation may be enough but there are many bad moves that you cannot
refute by 14 plies

1.a4 e5 2.h4 d5 is not good for white but with 14 plies search of only material evaluation you cannot show that white lose material.


Look Uri, this guy is basically promoting the opposite of what the engines are doing;

- Razoring is very bad tactical
- a bigger reduction factor for nullmove is tactical very bad

Yet most engines with a simple evaluation are using exactly this. So their 'own' engines if the word' own' applies anyhow, are doing the opposite of what gets written down here in the first place.

They're simply throwing away all lines outside say roughly a 1 pawn window around the current nullwindow. Not many attempts get undertaken at all to catch all tactics there.

It's just a positional search basically, not tactical at all.

You can also easily prove this with tactics; Not seldom Stockfish needs a ply or 40 for problems that are nominal 18-20 ply or so.

Take for example e4-e5!! problem in Nolot.

[pos]r2qrb1k/1p1b2p1/p2ppn1p/8/3NP3/1BN5/PPP3QP/1K3RR1 w - - bm e5;

Todays computerchess programs are not focussed upon solving tactics at all.

Vincent
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Subject Author Date/Time
The evaluation value and value returned by minimax search Ma Chao Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:51 am
      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:06 pm
            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Pio Korinth Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:51 pm
            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:34 am
            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:58 am
                  Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:20 pm
                        Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:41 pm
                              Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:44 pm
                                    Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:47 pm
                                          Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:51 pm
                                                Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:55 pm
                                                      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Marco Costalba Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:04 pm
                                                            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:10 pm
                                                                  Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:03 pm
                        Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:43 pm
                        Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Uri Blass Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:07 pm
                              Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:23 pm
                                    Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:47 pm
                                          Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:50 pm
                                                Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:52 pm
                              Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:42 pm
      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Han Chengye Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:22 am
            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Marco Costalba Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:48 pm
      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Ralph Stoesser Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:12 pm
            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:27 am
      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:09 am
      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:27 am
Post new topic    TalkChess.com Forum Index -> Computer Chess Club: Programming and Technical Discussions

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Enhanced with Moby Threads