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The evaluation value and value returned by minimax search
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Vincent Diepeveen



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1738
Location: The Netherlands
PostPost subject: Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc    Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:58 am Reply to topic Reply with quote
zamar wrote:
“
SNIP
However for example in game of Go, where tactical complications can stay on the board over 100 moves and writing a good evaluation function is almost impossible, searching deeper with minimax doesn't necessarily help (or the gain is minimalistic).


If just 1% of the effort put in computerchess would be put in computer-go, you also easily beat of course any go player with todays hardware that also gets used for computerchess.

Just of course it requires a few talented game tree searchers to work in that field, and those guys want to get paid a salary.

What most people do not realize is that in go it's much easier to prune moves, so getting very big search depths there is pretty easy with todays hardware.

Now that said, realize how all search algorithms are total tuned and invented for computerchess.

Name me 1 search algorithm not yet invented/used before by some computerchess researcher that was invented in Go/Shogi or even checkers/draughts.

It all has been invented in chess as the most briliant guys worked on computerchess and not computer-go. That won't quickly change either.

Some stronger go players who also wrote a go program have estimated they need around a 30 ply search depth to get to the world top level tactics in go, not counting of course ladders.

However this is possible to achieve in go, even without reductions and no forward pruning and just nullmove you already get 15 ply.

Try to get 15 ply in chess with just nullmove, knowing that in go some engines stil even today prune already in a hard manner in the root position moves.

That's how accurate you can make a statistical function there.

If i would be able to use the evaluation function of some of the existing go programs that play strong, it's rather easy to already get 500 elo above any other go program, now don't tell me that any of todays go engines has dan level yet, as i hardly ever play go, maybe a few games each few years when i test again the current state of the go engines, and it's tough to see me as someone who is X - dan level, as a 5 dan just total hammered me with 361 points or so Smile

The first thing to introduce of course in your testing in go is add the concept of elo to the game of go, rather than work with dan and kyu levels Smile
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Subject Author Date/Time
The evaluation value and value returned by minimax search Ma Chao Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:51 am
      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:06 pm
            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Pio Korinth Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:51 pm
            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:34 am
            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:58 am
                  Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:20 pm
                        Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:41 pm
                              Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:44 pm
                                    Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:47 pm
                                          Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:51 pm
                                                Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:55 pm
                                                      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Marco Costalba Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:04 pm
                                                            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:10 pm
                                                                  Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:03 pm
                        Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:43 pm
                        Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Uri Blass Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:07 pm
                              Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:23 pm
                                    Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:47 pm
                                          Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:50 pm
                                                Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:52 pm
                              Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Joona Kiiski Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:42 pm
      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Han Chengye Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:22 am
            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Marco Costalba Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:48 pm
      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Ralph Stoesser Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:12 pm
            Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:27 am
      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:09 am
      Re: The evaluation value and value returned by minimax searc Vincent Diepeveen Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:27 am
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