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Don Dailey
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 4320
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 Post subject: Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:17 pm |
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| Sedat Canbaz wrote: |
| Don wrote: |
| MM wrote: |
Hello,
2600 is generic, anyway the difference in strenght between a 2600 and a 2800 is huge. If we consider any kind of GM, of course the machines are clearly dominant.
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I agree with that. What is interesting to me is not so much who is better but why they are better. What makes the computer stronger at normal human-like time controls?
Part of the answer has to do with the time controls and why humans play better and better with more time. There is still the tactical vs positional play issue and we might now ask if computers generally outplay humans positionally. I think in general they seem to but their dominance is not so clear in this respect. Computers have this extremely solid style where they do not seem to overlook anything and I don't necessarily mean what we call tactics.
Really there is no such thing as tactics, it's a word we made up to mean not overlooking big things, like obvious wins of material. Computers are good at that but they don't overlook little things either - provided they understand them. That's where they are really dominant and they are so good at it that it seems to cover over their inferior positional understanding faults. You cannot tell they are inferior when they calculate so well. |
Sure that the difference is huge between 2600 and 2800 Elo
But however,it seems many of the chess friends dont care a lot about the speed of the processors and the strenght of opening books
Just i'd like to mention again that the hardware speed is very important factor
For example,980X @4.33GHz is approx.3 times faster than Quad 2.40GHz:
| Code: |
Hardware-Processor Speed Cores kN/s
Intel Core i7 980X @ 4.33 GHz 6 18709
Intel Core 2 Q6600 2.40 GHz 4 6771 |
*The hardware Elo difference is expecting to be approx.130-150 Elo
Another very important note is that:the power of the opening books
Even exactly on same equal conditions (exception books),we can see huge different Elo standings
I have no much free time to post all my book tournament links,but here is the latest one:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/scct-super-league/
Hope this helps
Best,
Sedat |
The most effective way, in my opinion, to measure the difference in humans and computers can be done at any time control. You simply turn off pondering and play time handicap games. I would recommend that the computer be rigged not to move faster than it normally would anyway. So if the time control is 40/30 minutes and the handicap is that the computer play 40/5 minutes, that is a 6 to 1 handicap. So if the computer has a move ready in 5 seconds it should "wait" for 30 seconds, that is 6x longer, to return the move. Of course the interface or the computer can be rigged to return the move.
The reason for this is that humans can be upset by pace. If the computer is playing instantly the human is still be robbed of time and most humans can be provoked into playing too fast if their opponent is playing fast.
Once you have established a baseline of equivalence, you can extrapolate pretty easily. In fact you don't need a top player, just get a strong player who is 200-400 below the top players who is willing to play a lot of games, or better yet get a number of players over 2400 willing to do this but who have well established ratings. We need to do something like this because we are getting the point where we don't really have reliable data on how strong computer are compared to humans - this would at least give us a good reference point. |
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| Subject |
Author |
Date/Time |
 POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:19 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:22 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Don Dailey |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:25 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:10 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:27 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Don Dailey |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:35 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:45 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:49 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:03 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:27 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Mel Cooper |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:04 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:15 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Mel Cooper |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:23 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:53 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Michael Golub |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:21 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:45 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:50 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:35 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Thomas Mayer |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:41 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Thomas Mayer |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:47 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:30 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:18 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Don Dailey |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:08 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Carl Bicknell |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:15 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Don Dailey |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:09 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Carl Bicknell |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:35 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Uri Blass |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:02 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:38 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:10 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:43 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:19 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:14 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Don Dailey |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:17 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:58 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Don Dailey |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:15 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:42 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Don Dailey |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:11 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Maurizio Maglio |
Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:27 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Jean ahlbeck |
Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:20 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:15 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Uri Blass |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:08 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:44 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:16 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:16 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Jean ahlbeck |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:14 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:37 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Jean ahlbeck |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:01 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:32 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Dr.Wael Deeb |
Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:06 pm |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Jean ahlbeck |
Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:28 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Jean ahlbeck |
Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:52 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:20 am |
| Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? |
Sedat Canbaz |
Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:19 pm |
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