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POLL:Man vs Machine ?
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Maurizio Maglio



Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 766
PostPost subject: Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ?    Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:27 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sedat Canbaz wrote:
MM wrote:


Hello Sedat,

i understand your point of view and respect totally your opinion but i see the things differently.

If i understood well, you match the strenght of the engines of the past with the actual engines and calculate the elo difference (and calculate the plus elo due to the hardware)

Basically, having that, you calculate the plus strenght of the engine against humans.

From my point of view it is not correct.

For example: if you set a match between Carlsen and a 1400 elo engine and a 1800 elo engine, probably Carlsen will score identically.

But there is 400 elo difference between the 2 engines.

I mean that the elo of the engines, in my opinion, is valid only for engines and cannot be compared to the elo of Humans for a simple reason:

with the exception of very rare events, humans and machines have a own life and never play the same tournaments.

If there was a circuit in which humans and software would play constantly together and we should have a huge difference in performance in favour of the machine i would agree with you.

But it's not the actual situation.

Basically i think that untill humans and machines will play together regularely in the tournaments, it is impossible to compare the strenght of the ones with the strenght of the others.

Thank you

Best Regards


Dear Maurizio,

Thank you for interesting comments...

Of course its just estimations...i dont claim 100 % that i am right about there will be more than 500 Elo difference

I can be wrong...you can be wrong too

Just a simple question:
-Do you believe that Top GMs of 2700-2800 Elo will perform 200-300 Elo points stronger than Fritz in Bahrain,Rebel,Chess Tiger 2007.1 ?

Please check the bellow table,which is based on GMs vs Machines results - played 6-7 years ago,where the difference is 190 Elo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-computer_chess_matches


Note:only Junior chess engine was defeated (only two loses by Junior engine,it seems Junior team was not so lucky)


See also the performance of Chess Tiger,Rebel... vs Humans:
http://www.rebel.nl/resu.htm


I know very well that for a better conclusion,thousands of games are needed,but anyway i impressed by the performance of the top chess programs
And i dont think that we can find a such sponsor,who will make a such event of running thousands of games between Man vs Machine

Personally for me it's will be a BIG surprise,in case of Houdini,Rybka,Critter will be performed 300-400 Elo stronger than top GMs


Best,
Sedat


Hi Sedat,

thanks for the links Smile

yes, machines have often very good results.

I think a Super Gm must recall all his will and his concentration to be able to fight against the machine because the machine is never tired, never blunders, has never fear, never feels pressure and anyway GM's have very little experience how to face a machine.

That's why i would like tournaments with humans and machines together continuosly. It would be better for everyone.

Best Regards
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MM
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Subject Author Date/Time
POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:19 am
      Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:22 pm
      Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Don Dailey Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:25 pm
            Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:10 pm
                  Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:27 pm
                        Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Don Dailey Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:35 pm
                              Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:45 pm
                        Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:49 pm
                              Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:03 pm
                                    Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:27 pm
                        Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Mel Cooper Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:04 pm
                              Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:15 pm
                                    Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Mel Cooper Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:23 pm
                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:53 pm
      Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Michael Golub Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:21 pm
            Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:45 pm
                  Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:50 am
                        Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:35 am
                              Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Thomas Mayer Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:41 am
                              Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Thomas Mayer Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:47 am
                                    Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:30 pm
                              Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:18 pm
                        Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Don Dailey Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:08 pm
                              Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Carl Bicknell Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:15 pm
                                    Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Don Dailey Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:09 pm
                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Carl Bicknell Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:35 pm
                                                Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Uri Blass Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:02 am
                              Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:38 pm
                                    Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:10 pm
                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:43 pm
                                                Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:19 pm
                                                      Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:14 pm
                                    Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Don Dailey Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:17 pm
                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:58 pm
                                                Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Don Dailey Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:15 pm
                                                      Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:42 pm
                                                            Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Don Dailey Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:11 pm
                                                                  Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Maurizio Maglio Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:27 pm
                                                                        Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Jean ahlbeck Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:20 am
                                                                              Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:15 am
                                                                                    Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Uri Blass Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:08 am
                                                                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:44 am
                                                                              Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:16 am
                                                                                    Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:16 am
                                                                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Jean ahlbeck Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:14 am
                                                                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:37 am
                                                                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Jean ahlbeck Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:01 pm
                                                                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:32 pm
                                                                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Dr.Wael Deeb Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:06 pm
                                                                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Jean ahlbeck Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:28 am
                                                                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Jean ahlbeck Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:52 am
                                                                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:20 am
                                                                                          Re: POLL:Man vs Machine ? Sedat Canbaz Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:19 pm
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