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Null Move Help
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Evert Glebbeek



Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 863
Location: NL
PostPost subject: Re: Null Move Help    Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:19 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
hgm wrote:
The way it is implemented is that always one of the clocks is running. There are several reasons for not doing it as you describe. For one, it would maximize waiting time by putting all processing on the critical path, while conceivably there could have been a speedup (in terms of real time, not CPU load) by doing things in parallel. After all, there could have been an unused core available. And in some cases the GUI processing involves waiting (i.e. time, but no CPU load). For instance, when the user has 'animate moves' on, the animation must take place over a time span of 50-100 msec, and it would be wasteful to have the engine wait for that.

That's true, but I guess there are slightly different requirements when running automated engine matches compared to running the GUI to play or view a game.

Quote:
Another problem is that the GUI is not idle during the engine search. The engine sends it thinking output, which has to be read by the GUI, and processd (e.g. converted to SAN, and written in the Engine-Output window, which must then be made to scroll...). This is even significant in the case of WB protocol, where I see the CPU load during engine search drop from 6 msec to 4 msec by suppressing the thinking output. And UCI engines usually send many times as much output as WB engines. It is not unusual to have 95-99% of all engine->GUI traffic be thinking output / info commands, which all happens during the engine search. The 5-1% needed to communicate the moves is the only part that could be taken out by stopping the clock.

That's true, but using up some of the resources while the engine is thinking will only reduce the depth of the search (marginally). Having the clock run after the engine is done thinking and has send its move is what may cause a time-loss. Unless the GUI would not "call the flag" if the engine is only over the timelimit by less than (say) a few ms (could be a GUI option?).

Quote:
Besides, it has a ring of justice that engines are made to suffer in terms of the CPU they get for bombarding the GUI with messages.

Yes.
But it's not fair to penalise the engine with a timeloss if it takes the GUI too long to stop the engine clock. Wink
Of course that would only become an issue for ultra-short timecontrol games.
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Display posts from previous:   
Subject Author Date/Time
Null Move Help Steve Mulligan Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 pm
      Re: Null Move Help Sven Schüle Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:36 pm
      Re: Null Move Help Robert Purves Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:38 pm
      Re: Null Move Help Steve Mulligan Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:19 am
            Re: Null Move Help Lucas Braesch Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:23 am
                  Re: Null Move Help Steve Mulligan Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:06 pm
                        Re: Null Move Help Tony Mokonen Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:01 am
                              Re: Null Move Help Lucas Braesch Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:14 am
                                    Re: Null Move Help Patrik Karlsson Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:06 am
                                          Re: Null Move Help Tony Mokonen Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:59 am
                                                Re: Null Move Help Lucas Braesch Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:32 am
                                                      Re: Null Move Help Tony Mokonen Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:16 am
                                                            Re: Null Move Help Lucas Braesch Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:39 am
                                    Re: Null Move Help H.G.Muller Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:07 pm
                                          Re: Null Move Help Lucas Braesch Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:31 pm
                                                Re: Null Move Help H.G.Muller Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:49 pm
                                                      Re: Null Move Help H.G.Muller Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:48 pm
                                                            Re: Null Move Help Lucas Braesch Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:56 pm
                                                                  Re: Null Move Help H.G.Muller Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:02 pm
                                                            Re: Null Move Help H.G.Muller Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:14 pm
                                                                  Re: Null Move Help H.G.Muller Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:07 pm
                                                                  Re: Null Move Help Evert Glebbeek Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:15 pm
                                                                        Re: Null Move Help H.G.Muller Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:46 am
                                                                              Re: Null Move Help Evert Glebbeek Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:19 pm
                                    Re: Null Move Help Steve Mulligan Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:32 pm
                                          Re: Null Move Help Lucas Braesch Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:51 pm
                                                Re: Null Move Help Steve Mulligan Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:15 pm
                                                      Re: Null Move Help Robert Purves Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:00 pm
                        Re: Null Move Help H.G.Muller Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:03 pm
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