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Court case victory to Chessbase
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Dann Corbit



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 5125
Location: Redmond, WA USA
PostPost subject: Re: Court case victory to Chessbase    Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:27 am Reply to topic Reply with quote
Albert Silver wrote:
michiguel wrote:
stevenaaus wrote:
Laskos wrote:
Funny, every literary text is enumerable...
I just wrote such a program and it gave me

"one can write a program which, given enough time, can enumerate every possible game of chess that can be played" in 2 seconds.

Not that i think this argument has much import... but my hunch is the reason chess games *are* numerable, while prose is not, is that all chess games must end - because of repetition, or the 50 move rule. Texts (and mindless chess forums for that matter), can go on forever.


Human chess is not enumerable, to start with. The enforcement of those rules are not mandatory. Moreover, to be pedantic, you can even have illegal moves and if nobody claimed them as such, they stay in the board.

In addition, the time consumed for each move is an intrinsic part of the game. So, if they are relayed, it changes the meaning of the score (was this in time trouble or not?).

Moreover, even if two scores are identical, the two players could be different changing completely the meaning. Look at the famous games between Soviets and Argentinians in Goteborg (1955?). The scores ended up being different... but they could have been the same. Moves were not played at the same time.

I agree with Kai. I think the scores should not be copyrighted, but for other reasons.

Some judges were never aware of Borges... Smile

Miguel


Copyrighting games would really be the end of it. Chess has a big enough struggle penetrating as it is without trying to claim ownership of the moves played. I wont even get into the issue of reproducing the same moves of other games, but imagine books unable to be written because three dozen permissions and payment of royalties were required. Online news sites unable to share games, and let's not forget the popular press, where chess columns would be killed off quicker than you can blink since it is a hard enough sell to get them to support it without that insane hassle. The list goes on and on.

I don't think Danailov is genuinely interested in copyrighting games. I think he does this for the publicity. His choice to sue Chessbase is probably for their having denounced shady actions of his in the past. Other sites relayed moves and paid nothing despite demands, such as ICC, and others, but were not sued.


I don't understand how it ever went to court.
I thought it was already decided that:
1. Game scores without annotation are not copyrighted
2. Game scores with annotation have copyright
3. Game collections can be copyrighted as a collection.

So, for instance:
1. e4 1-0
cannot be copyrighted.

and "My 60 Memorable Games" by Bobby Fischer can be a collection that has copyright.

Also, GM annotation of some particular game has copyright.

Otherwise, if someone resigns after the first move, they are guilty of copyright infringement. How stupid is that?
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Subject Author Date/Time
Court case victory to Chessbase Graham Banks Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:08 am
      Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Ted Wong Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:53 am
            Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Albert Silver Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:29 pm
                  Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Ernest Bonnem Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:03 pm
                        Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Albert Silver Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:42 pm
                              Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Greg Simpson Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:40 pm
                                    Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Albert Silver Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:44 pm
                                          Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Greg Simpson Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:27 am
                                                Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Albert Silver Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:14 am
                                                      Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Sven Schüle Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:12 am
                                                      Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Greg Simpson Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:10 pm
                                                            Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Albert Silver Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:41 pm
                                                                  Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Greg Simpson Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:34 pm
                  Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Robert Hyatt Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:38 pm
                        Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Kai Laskos Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:00 pm
                              Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Steven Atkinson Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:21 pm
                                    Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Miguel A. Ballicora Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:53 pm
                                          Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Albert Silver Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:00 am
                                                Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Dann Corbit Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:27 am
                                                Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Miguel A. Ballicora Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:27 am
                                                      Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Albert Silver Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:43 pm
                                                            Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Miguel A. Ballicora Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:36 pm
                                                                  Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Albert Silver Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:55 pm
                              Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Robert Hyatt Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:24 am
                                    Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Greg Simpson Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:33 am
                                          Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Robert Hyatt Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:55 pm
                                    Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Kai Laskos Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:53 am
                                          Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Alex Brown Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:48 am
                                          Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Robert Hyatt Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:00 pm
                                                Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Miguel A. Ballicora Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:33 pm
                                                      Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Robert Hyatt Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:32 pm
                                                            Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Miguel A. Ballicora Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:48 pm
                                                Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Miguel A. Ballicora Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:40 pm
                                                      Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Robert Hyatt Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:34 pm
                                                            Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Miguel A. Ballicora Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:50 pm
      Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Steven Atkinson Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:22 pm
            Re: Court case victory to Chessbase Graham Banks Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:29 pm
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