One year?Roger Brown wrote:I say that there should be some time limit on the length that these statements can stand unchallenged.
Expired...
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
One year?Roger Brown wrote:I say that there should be some time limit on the length that these statements can stand unchallenged.
Code: Select all
379.375-->1:go infinite
379.438<--1:info depth 1
379.438<--1:info depth 2
379.438<--1:info depth 2 score cp 26 time 17 nodes 42 nps 2529 pv g1f3
379.438<--1:info depth 2 time 17 nodes 51 nps 3072
379.438<--1:info depth 3
379.438<--1:info depth 3 score cp 9 time 17 nodes 65 nps 3915 pv g1f3
379.438<--1:info depth 3 time 17 nodes 114 nps 6866
379.438<--1:info depth 4
379.438<--1:info depth 4 score cp 13 time 17 nodes 142 nps 8553 pv g1f3
379.453<--1:info depth 4 time 17 nodes 190 nps 11444
379.453<--1:info depth 5
379.453<--1:info depth 5 score cp 9 time 32 nodes 267 nps 8544 pv g1f3 g8f6
379.453<--1:info depth 5 time 32 nodes 426 nps 13632
379.453<--1:info depth 6
379.470<--1:info depth 6 score cp 6 time 48 nodes 722 nps 15402 pv g1f3 g8f6 b1c3
379.485<--1:info depth 6 time 64 nodes 1243 nps 19888
379.485<--1:info depth 7
379.500<--1:info depth 7 score cp 10 time 79 nodes 1553 nps 20130 pv g1f3 g8f6 b1c3 b8c6
379.532<--1:info depth 7 time 110 nodes 2284 nps 21261
379.532<--1:info depth 8
379.578<--1:info depth 8 score cp 6 time 157 nodes 3506 nps 22867 pv g1f3 g8f6 b1c3 b8c6 d2d3
379.656<--1:info depth 8 time 235 nodes 5569 nps 24266
379.656<--1:info depth 9
379.984<--1:info depth 9 score cp 11 time 564 nodes 11312 nps 20538 pv g1f3 g8f6 c2c4 b8c6 d2d3 e7e6
380.048<--1:info depth 9 time 626 nodes 12895 nps 21093
380.048<--1:info depth 10
380.672<--1:info depth 10 score cp 14 time 1251 nodes 25119 nps 20561 pv g1f3 g8f6 b1c3 b8c6 d2d4 d7d5 c1f4
380.813<--1:info depth 10 time 1392 nodes 28796 nps 21183
380.813<--1:info depth 11
381.406<--1:info depth 11 score cp 14 time 1985 nodes 39589 nps 20422 pv g1f3 g8f6 b1c3 b8c6 d2d4 d7d5 c1f4 c8f5
381.797<--1:info depth 11 time 2376 nodes 49413 nps 21295
381.797<--1:info depth 12
383.078<--1:info depth 12 score cp 14 time 3657 nodes 72478 nps 20294 pv g1f3 g8f6 b1c3 b8c6 d2d4 d7d5 c1f4 c8f5 e2e3
383.189<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 3
383.234<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 4
383.251<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 5
383.281<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 6
383.297<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 7
383.314<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 8
383.329<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 9
383.359<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 10
383.439<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 11
383.454<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 12
383.517<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 13
383.532<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 14
383.547<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 15
383.564<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 16
383.579<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 17
383.609<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 18
383.642-->1:stop
383.642<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 19
383.657<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 20
383.672<--1:info depth 12 time 4251 nodes 87771 nps 21142
383.672<--1:bestmove g1f3 ponder g8f6
Code: Select all
34.484<--1:info depth 1
34.484<--1:info depth 1 seldepth 1 score cp 26 time 0 nodes 2 pv b1a3
34.501<--1:info depth 1 seldepth 1 score cp 54 time 0 nodes 3 pv b1c3
34.501<--1:info depth 1 seldepth 1 time 0 nodes 21 nps 0
34.501<--1:info depth 2
34.501<--1:info depth 2 seldepth 2 score cp 0 time 0 nodes 44 pv b1c3 b8c6
34.501<--1:info depth 2 seldepth 2 time 0 nodes 82 nps 0
34.501<--1:info depth 3
34.501<--1:info depth 3 seldepth 3 score cp 54 time 0 nodes 148 pv b1c3 b8c6 g1f3
34.501<--1:info depth 3 seldepth 3 time 0 nodes 186 nps 0
34.501<--1:info depth 4
34.501<--1:info depth 4 seldepth 6 score cp 0 time 0 nodes 300 pv b1c3 b8c6 g1f3 g8f6
34.501<--1:info depth 4 seldepth 6 time 0 nodes 976 nps 0
34.501<--1:info depth 5
34.501<--1:info depth 5 seldepth 9 score cp 48 time 0 nodes 1729 pv b1c3 b8c6 g1f3 g8f6 d2d4
34.501<--1:info depth 5 seldepth 9 time 15 nodes 1933 nps 0
34.501<--1:info depth 6
34.501<--1:info depth 6 seldepth 12 score cp 0 time 15 nodes 3331 pv b1c3 b8c6 g1f3 g8f6 d2d4 d7d5
34.516<--1:info depth 6 seldepth 12 time 15 nodes 9447 nps 0
34.516<--1:info depth 7
34.516<--1:info depth 7 seldepth 14 score cp 42 time 31 nodes 15332 pv b1c3 b8c6 g1f3 g8f6 d2d4 d7d5 c1f4
34.516<--1:info depth 7 seldepth 14 time 31 nodes 16243 nps 0
34.516<--1:info depth 8
34.531<--1:info depth 8 seldepth 17 score cp 0 time 46 nodes 35078 pv b1c3 g8f6 g1f3 b8c6 d2d4 d7d5 c1f4 c8f5
34.579<--1:info depth 8 seldepth 20 time 93 nodes 72286 nps 0
34.579<--1:info depth 9
34.641<--1:info depth 9 seldepth 20 score cp 15 time 156 nodes 125215 pv b1c3 g8f6 g1f3 b8c6 d2d4 d7d5 d1d3 c6b4 d3b5 b4c6
34.672<--1:info depth 9 seldepth 21 time 187 nodes 151298 nps 0
34.672<--1:info depth 10
34.954<--1:info depth 10 seldepth 22 score cp 12 time 421 nodes 330356 pv b1c3 d7d5 d2d4 c8f5 g1f3 g8f6 f3h4 f5g4 h2h3 g4d7
35.017<--1:info depth 10 seldepth 22 score cp 15 time 531 nodes 427686 pv g1f3 b8c6 d2d4 d7d5 b1c3 g8f6 d1d3 g7g6 c1f4 c8f5
35.109<--1:info depth 10 seldepth 24 time 625 nodes 504717 nps 0
35.109<--1:info depth 11
35.485<--1:info time 1000 nodes 790000 nps 790000 cpuload 1000
35.485<--1:info hashfull 17
35.563<--1:info depth 11 seldepth 24 score cp 23 time 1078 nodes 861114 pv g1f3 b8c6 b1c3 g8f6 e2e3 d7d5 f1b5 c8g4 h2h3 g4f5 e1g1
35.578<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 2
35.610<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 3
35.657<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 4
35.703<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 5
35.720<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 6
35.735<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 7
35.735<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 8
35.750<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 9
35.750<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 10
35.750<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 11
35.766<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 12
35.766<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 13
35.781<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 14
35.781<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 15
35.781<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 16
35.781<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 17
35.781<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 18
35.781<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 19
35.798<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 20
35.798<--1:info depth 11 seldepth 24 time 1312 nodes 1036135 nps 789737
35.798<--1:info depth 12
35.798<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
36.484<--1:info time 2000 nodes 1580000 nps 790000 cpuload 1000
36.484<--1:info hashfull 34
36.609<--1:info depth 12 seldepth 28 score cp 10 time 2125 nodes 1684642 pv g1f3 b8c6 b1c3 g8f6 d2d4 d7d5 f3e5 c8f5 e5c6 b7c6 c1f4 a8b8 b2b3
36.609<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 2
36.938<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 3
37.188-->1:stop
37.203<--1:info time 2718 nodes 2160000 nps 794702 cpuload 1000
37.203<--1:info hashfull 45
37.203<--1:bestmove g1f3 ponder b8c6
Code: Select all
662.234<--1:info depth 1
662.234<--1:info time 0 nodes 21 nps 0 score cp 1 depth 1 seldepth 2 pv h2h4
662.250<--1:info time 0 nodes 23 nps 0 score cp 6 depth 1 seldepth 2 pv g2g4
662.250<--1:info time 0 nodes 27 nps 0 score cp 29 depth 1 seldepth 2 pv e2e4
662.250<--1:info time 0 nodes 38 nps 0 score cp 58 depth 1 seldepth 2 pv g1f3
662.267<--1:info depth 2
662.267<--1:info time 0 nodes 117 nps 0 score cp 19 depth 2 seldepth 6 pv g1f3 b8c6 b1c3 g8f6 d2d3
662.267<--1:info depth 3
662.267<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
662.267<--1:info time 0 nodes 216 nps 0 score cp 19 depth 3 seldepth 6 pv g1f3 b8c6 b1c3 g8f6 d2d3
662.267<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 2
662.267<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 3
662.267<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 4
662.267<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 5
662.267<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 6
662.267<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 7
662.267<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 8
662.267<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 9
662.267<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 10
662.267<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 11
662.267<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 12
662.267<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 13
662.267<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 14
662.267<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 15
662.267<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 16
662.267<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 17
662.267<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 18
662.267<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 19
662.267<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 20
662.267<--1:info depth 4
662.267<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
662.267<--1:info time 0 nodes 532 nps 0 score cp 19 depth 4 seldepth 7 pv g1f3 b8c6 b1c3 g8f6 d2d3
662.267<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 2
662.267<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 3
662.267<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 4
662.267<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 5
662.282<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 6
662.282<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 7
662.282<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 8
662.282<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 9
662.282<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 10
662.282<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 11
662.282<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 12
662.282<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 13
662.282<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 14
662.282<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 15
662.282<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 16
662.282<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 17
662.282<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 18
662.282<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 19
662.282<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 20
662.282<--1:info depth 5
662.282<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
662.282<--1:info time 0 nodes 1464 nps 0 score cp 6 depth 5 seldepth 21 pv g1f3 b8c6 b1c3 g8f6 d2d4 d7d6 h2h3 c8e6 e2e4
662.282<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 2
662.282<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 3
662.282<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 4
662.282<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 5
662.282<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 6
662.282<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 7
662.282<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 8
662.282<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 9
662.282<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 10
662.282<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 11
662.282<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 12
662.297<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 13
662.297<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 14
662.297<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 15
662.297<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 16
662.297<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 17
662.297<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 18
662.297<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 19
662.297<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 20
662.297<--1:info depth 6
662.297<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
662.297<--1:info time 0 nodes 1900 nps 0 score cp 6 depth 6 seldepth 21 pv g1f3 b8c6 b1c3 g8f6 d2d4 d7d6 h2h3 c8e6 e2e4
662.297<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 2
662.297<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 3
662.297<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 4
662.297<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 5
662.297<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 6
662.297<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 7
662.297<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 8
662.297<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 9
662.297<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 10
662.297<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 11
662.297<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 12
662.297<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 13
662.297<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 14
662.297<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 15
662.297<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 16
662.297<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 17
662.297<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 18
662.297<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 19
662.314<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 20
662.314<--1:info depth 7
662.314<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
662.314<--1:info time 15 nodes 3201 nps 213000 score cp 7 depth 7 seldepth 25 pv g1f3 b8c6 b1c3 g8f6 h2h3 d7d6 d2d3 c8e6 c1e3 h7h6 f3d4
662.314<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 2
662.314<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 3
662.314<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 4
662.314<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 5
662.314<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 6
662.314<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 7
662.314<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 8
662.314<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 9
662.314<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 10
662.314<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 11
662.314<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 12
662.314<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 13
662.314<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 14
662.314<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 15
662.314<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 16
662.314<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 17
662.314<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 18
662.314<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 19
662.314<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 20
662.314<--1:info depth 8
662.314<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
662.314<--1:info time 31 nodes 4339 nps 139000 score cp 7 depth 8 seldepth 25 pv g1f3 b8c6 b1c3 g8f6 h2h3 d7d6 d2d3 c8e6 c1e3 h7h6 f3d4
662.329<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 2
662.329<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 3
662.329<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 4
662.329<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 5
662.329<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 6
662.329<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 7
662.329<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 8
662.329<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 9
662.329<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 10
662.329<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 11
662.329<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 12
662.329<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 13
662.329<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 14
662.329<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 15
662.329<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 16
662.329<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 17
662.329<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 18
662.329<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 19
662.329<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 20
662.329<--1:info depth 9
662.329<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
662.329<--1:info time 46 nodes 11517 nps 250000 score cp 13 depth 9 seldepth 25 pv g1f3 g8f6 b1c3 b8c6 d2d4 d7d6 e2e4 h7h6 h2h3
662.329<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 2
662.329<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 3
662.329<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 4
662.329<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 5
662.329<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 6
662.345<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 7
662.345<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 8
662.345<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 9
662.345<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 10
662.345<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 11
662.345<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 12
662.345<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 13
662.345<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 14
662.345<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 15
662.345<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 16
662.345<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 17
662.345<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 18
662.345<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 19
662.345<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 20
662.345<--1:info depth 10
662.345<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
662.345<--1:info time 62 nodes 20357 nps 328000 score cp 19 depth 10 seldepth 25 pv g1f3 g8f6 b1c3 b8c6 d2d4 d7d6 e2e4 h7h6 d4d5 c6b4 c1e3 e7e5
662.345<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 2
662.345<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 3
662.345<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 4
662.345<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 5
662.345<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 6
662.345<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 7
662.345<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 8
662.345<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 9
662.345<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 10
662.345<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 11
662.359<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 12
662.359<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 13
662.359<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 14
662.359<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 15
662.359<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 16
662.359<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 17
662.359<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 18
662.359<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 19
662.359<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 20
662.359<--1:info depth 11
662.359<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
662.359<--1:info currmove e2e4 currmovenumber 2
662.359<--1:info currmove g2g4 currmovenumber 3
662.359<--1:info currmove h2h4 currmovenumber 4
662.359<--1:info currmove h2h3 currmovenumber 5
662.359<--1:info currmove g2g3 currmovenumber 6
662.359<--1:info currmove f2f4 currmovenumber 7
662.359<--1:info currmove f2f3 currmovenumber 8
662.359<--1:info currmove e2e3 currmovenumber 9
662.359<--1:info currmove d2d4 currmovenumber 10
662.359<--1:info currmove d2d3 currmovenumber 11
662.359<--1:info currmove c2c4 currmovenumber 12
662.359<--1:info currmove c2c3 currmovenumber 13
662.359<--1:info currmove b2b4 currmovenumber 14
662.359<--1:info currmove b2b3 currmovenumber 15
662.359<--1:info currmove a2a4 currmovenumber 16
662.359<--1:info currmove a2a3 currmovenumber 17
662.359<--1:info currmove g1h3 currmovenumber 18
662.359<--1:info currmove b1c3 currmovenumber 19
662.359<--1:info currmove b1a3 currmovenumber 20
662.359<--1:info depth 11
662.359<--1:info currmove g1f3 currmovenumber 1
663.484-->1:stop
663.516<--1:info time 1281 nodes 646037 nps 504000 score cp 9 depth 13 seldepth 33 pv g1f3 g8f6 b1c3 b8c6 d2d4 d7d5 d1d3 e7e6 e2e4 h7h6 c1f4
663.516<--1:bestmove g1f3
I do consider the theory that the initial working code base of Ippolit was another engine, like Kaissa, as not bad. Indeed I think it is quite likely, taking into account the many differences that have been found between Ippolit and R3, that parts of the Rybka search and/or evaluation might have been incorporated into a different working code base via disassembling, with several adaptations and also many changes of course. I mentioned that possibility in the past already but did not get too much feedback at that time. What would make this really doable IMO is the fact that Ippolit and R3 have (according to the "BB" paper) a very similar, although not identical, board representation based on rotated bitboards.Alexander Schmidt wrote:Well if this accusation is allowed in the public forum, I attach importance to post some defending details also in public. I know it is all discussed, no need to discuss it again. Move it to EOF if you like, but take the initial accusation with it.
Here are some details:
I am always talking about the differences between Ippolit and Rybka, I want to show some details.
Maybe my work encourages someone to proof me wrong. I would be happy about a critical factual discussion.
This is not meant as an evidence that Ippolit is no clone of Rybka, but it shows that the engines are different enough to ask for a proof if someone says it's a clone.
After all I am sure Ippolit is NOT based on a decompiled Rybka. In another thread I showed why I think the roots are Kaissa from Vladimir Yelin. BTW it would be a hard challange to decompile Rybka 3, translate the decompiled version to something understandable, and improve the engine along the way by 100 ELO in a half year.
I can not exclude the possibility that parts of Rybka are inside Ippolit. I am thinking about Rybkas so called tables. But they are also in Strelka, it should be easy for an expert to find them in Ippolit. Maybe something else, but who can be sure it is "stolen"? Maybe it is only the idea that was taken, since Strelka many secrets of Rybka are public.
You have already posted that part in the past, nothing new so far. I recall that I replied to it, but never mind, here is my reply again from my current viewpoint:Alexander Schmidt wrote: But now to the promised facts
<details omitted here>
"Zero details" is as imprecise as possible. This was part of my post that I linked to above:bob wrote:I believe that I responded to your post back then point by point also. Your "refutation" offers _zero_ details. And I _do_ mean _zero_. When we started the analysis, we were comparing rybka binary to fruit source, and since the binary is stripped of symbols, and since it is in asm, it takes some work to go from asm back to C. And that code was posted here. And there were howls of protest because our goal was to take the binary and map it directly back to C that matches fruit. I tried to point out that C to binary is a many-to-one mapping, as there are many ways to code up an algorithm where the source looks completely different but the binary is identical. Students try this all the time by changing variable names, procedure names, switching from a for loop to a while loop, and so forth. So going blindly from asm to C is not helpful, but _if_ you ask the question, "Can I use this assembly code, in its entirety without adding instructions or having any left over, and map it back to the exact C source in fruit?" then the answer was yes in more than one instance, the first was the main loop where commands are read and the infamous do_parse() procedure is called.Sven Schüle wrote:These percentages are very plausible for me. I don't know whether many non-programmers can follow but nevertheless I suggest to all interested members to reread what I already posted five weeks ago on that topic (EO subforum). Read especially my quite detailled comments on each of the points from Zach's pages under the heading "My details". If I had to match these 11 points with the 40-40-20 estimate by Vas then I would perhaps come to similar numbers as he did.
One note @Zach here: for me claiming that something is "wrong", or "standard CC concept" does not mean anything about your competence, and also nothing personal. I just try to keep as objective as possible. If someone would make 4 wrong statements out of 11 then this does not turn him "incompetent" at all. Just to let you know. EDIT: I see no reason why Vas should view this differently.
If you don't accept any of that, that's your choice. But there _is_ ample evidence to show that code was copied. It is not about how much was copied, it is about was _any_ copied, and the answer is most certainly "yes". It is time to get out from behind this false cover of "not too much" or "just a little". One more time, you can't be just a little bit pregnant. Ideas are not the same as code. We are talking about _code_.
Another new excuse is "Rybka is bitboard, fruit is not, can't be copied". Baloney. Much of my early evaluation was not bitboard since I have always maintained a mailbox copy of the board to make it easy to figure out what piece is on a particular square. And I converted that code directly to bitboard code later. Are you _really_ saying that is not copied. When I copy A to B, then modify B to use a different board representation, and now B is not a copy of A. That's convoluted thinking, to be kind about it.
What if the robo* guys convert from bitboards? Are they _also_ OK by this definition, even though it looks more and more like they are already OK, based on continually arriving data.
Code: Select all
piece square tables:
- I can see no similar code, just similar values used
pawn_get_info():
- I can see no similar code, just ideas may have been reused
eval_piece():
- "Rybka code" may look similar but is a bitboard translation with several other changes, so only ideas were reused but no literal code copying
eval_king():
- using a flag that defines whether king safety is used or not is a common idea that many programs share, and its existence in R1 does not prove copying of code but just reusing an idea
- attacks evaluation is a bitboard translation, so the code is changed => only idea reused
- final score calculation: one source line is shown that contains the same idea in R1 as in Fruit but has 3 changes in R1, so no unchanged literal code copying
- shelter: implementations show look quite similar BUT Zach states that this code is not present in Rybka binary but is "an equivalent" created manually by Zach so this can be ZERO proof for anything
"All of this shelter evaluation code in Rybka above is an equivalent; it doesn't appear in the Rybka binary. It is there simply to illustrate what is in the precomputed tables. These precomputed tables are used during the pawn evaluation to quickly evaluate shelters."
- storm: very different code, only same ideas
eval_passer():
- "Rybka code" presented looks very different, just ideas may have been reused
eval_pattern():
- common ideas but completely different implementations
material:
- implementations of "MatKingFlag", "DrawBishopFlag", and game phase look quite similar
=> assembler code of R1 should be shown to prove that the code shown as "Rybka" is really in R1, and not part of Strelka source only (which would not prove anything)
If one cares about his/her reputation, then one will take the necessary time to defend it when necessary. One will take the necessary time to produce supporting data if it is available.
i.e., might (going to war) makes right (reputation)?mariaclara wrote:I feel this is common sense,
a vital part of person's "psyche"
A person's honor/reputation is very important.
If I'm correct, countries even went to war over honor/reputation.
R. Hyatt:
If one cares about his/her reputation, then one will take the necessary time to defend it when necessary. One will take the necessary time to produce supporting data if it is available.
There will only be a problem if Vas decides to sue him, which I think is pretty doubtful. {read:no way there will be a problem}oreopoulos wrote:I wonder, did you get permission to publish private emails?
Private emails, like private conversations are not to be published without the consent of both sides. Without the consent its illegal.
oreopoulos wrote:I wonder, did you get permission to publish private emails?
Private emails, like private conversations are not to be published without the consent of both sides. Without the consent its illegal.
Dear readers,
in case someone is interested, please find below the full contents of an email dialogue I had with Vasik Rajlich during the past two days. I did not remove or edit any part of the original emails except mail addresses, line break issues, and presentation of URLs. Both involved parties explicitly allow publishing of these emails in the TalkChess forum.