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Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation
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Ralph Stoesser



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 294
PostPost subject: Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation    Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:35 pm Reply to topic Reply with quote
Hi Marco,

not so hasty pls. I'm still new to SF. I have already found a major bug. It would not have been possible, if I would not inspect what I try to learn.

mcostalba wrote:
Ralph Stoesser wrote:

it would not make any difference whether I include x-ray attacks for queens or not, evaluate_threats() still would not "see" it. That's what I meant.

No, x-ray attacks for queens are used to evaluate mobility not threats.


X-ray attacks would be used for mobility, king safety and threat evaluation. Right?

Ralph Stoesser wrote:

Besides evaluate_threats(), queen attacks are especially important in king safety eval.
I would first double check whether it would hurt in king safety to have included x-ray attacks for the queen attacks. Especially the "safe queen contact checks" part seems to be very critical. I will take a look at it tomorrow evening.


Quote:

I am curious how you "double check" without testing the tweak and verify with real games if it hurts ot not Question


W.r.t. to king evaluation I see a piece of code that discovers safe queen contact checks and mates. The attackedBy table is used there. I thought it would be worth to look at this issue *thoroughly* before testing something. In case we would collect high bonuses for mate threats where there in fact are none, or more worse, detect queen contact mates, we would face some real mess not worth to test anything. Most likely you already knew it would be not critical, but I prefer to check it myself, anyhow.

To summarize I can spot three parts of the evaluation where x-ray queen attacks would be meaningful.

A) Mobility: Although I think it would probably not hurt, it seems not logical to me to use x-ray attacks for the mobility evaluation. Neither for queens, nor for rooks or bishops. Mobility is the ability to make moves. With my queen on d1 and my rook on d2 I cannot move my queen along the open d-file, because I have my rook in front of my nose.

B) Threats: It would be usefull to see x-ray attacks against week enemy pieces, but the bonuses for x-ray attacks probably should be lesser compared to the bonuses for direct attacks.

C) King eval: Luckily there already is a check for x-ray queen attacks which prevents wrong mate detection. So it seems somebody already had the plan to include x-ray attacks for the queens. Who could that have been?
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Subject Author Date/Time
Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Wed May 05, 2010 4:39 pm
      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Wed May 05, 2010 4:48 pm
            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Wed May 05, 2010 5:37 pm
                  Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Wed May 05, 2010 5:47 pm
      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Jan Brouwer Wed May 05, 2010 5:49 pm
            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Eelco de Groot Wed May 05, 2010 7:25 pm
                  Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Wed May 05, 2010 8:02 pm
                        Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Eelco de Groot Wed May 05, 2010 10:10 pm
                              Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Milos Stanisavljevic Wed May 05, 2010 10:30 pm
                                    Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Eelco de Groot Wed May 05, 2010 10:47 pm
                                    Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Wed May 05, 2010 11:27 pm
                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Eelco de Groot Thu May 06, 2010 1:23 am
                                                Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Thu May 06, 2010 9:07 am
                                                      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Sven Schüle Thu May 06, 2010 9:31 am
                                                            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Thu May 06, 2010 9:52 am
                                                                  Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Sven Schüle Thu May 06, 2010 10:48 am
                                                                        Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Thu May 06, 2010 12:08 pm
                                                                              Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Tord Romstad Thu May 06, 2010 8:24 pm
                                                      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Eelco de Groot Thu May 06, 2010 1:19 pm
                                                Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Fri May 07, 2010 9:34 pm
                                                      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Sat May 08, 2010 12:48 pm
                                                            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Eelco de Groot Sat May 08, 2010 1:47 pm
                                                            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marcel van Kervinck Sat May 08, 2010 2:01 pm
                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Thu May 06, 2010 11:40 am
                              Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Eelco de Groot Wed May 05, 2010 10:42 pm
      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Joona Kiiski Wed May 05, 2010 7:54 pm
            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Wed May 05, 2010 8:28 pm
            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Larry Kaufman Sun May 27, 2012 7:31 pm
      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Tord Romstad Thu May 06, 2010 8:16 pm
            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation James Coit Thu May 06, 2010 10:13 pm
            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Vratko Polák Thu May 06, 2010 11:38 pm
            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Fri May 07, 2010 12:15 am
                  Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Fri May 07, 2010 5:39 am
                        Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Fri May 07, 2010 8:09 am
                              Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Fri May 07, 2010 8:25 am
                                    Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Sven Schüle Fri May 07, 2010 9:48 am
                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Sven Schüle Fri May 07, 2010 10:31 am
                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Fri May 07, 2010 10:54 am
                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Miguel A. Ballicora Fri May 07, 2010 10:31 pm
                                                Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Sat May 08, 2010 1:33 pm
                                                      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Sat May 08, 2010 2:29 pm
                                                            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Sat May 08, 2010 4:24 pm
                                                                  Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Sat May 08, 2010 7:54 pm
                                                                        Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Sun May 09, 2010 3:19 pm
                                                                              Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Sun May 09, 2010 4:47 pm
                                                                                    Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Sun May 09, 2010 7:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Sun May 09, 2010 10:47 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Sun May 09, 2010 11:22 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Mon May 10, 2010 4:58 am
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Sven Schüle Mon May 10, 2010 7:39 am
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Mon May 10, 2010 10:22 am
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Eelco de Groot Mon May 10, 2010 5:04 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Mon May 10, 2010 9:35 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Tue May 11, 2010 11:19 am
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Tue May 11, 2010 1:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Tue May 11, 2010 9:38 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Wed May 12, 2010 5:05 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Robert Hyatt Wed May 12, 2010 6:14 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Wed May 12, 2010 6:39 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Thu May 13, 2010 12:51 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Wed May 12, 2010 8:13 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Wed May 12, 2010 9:15 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Marco Costalba Wed May 12, 2010 9:34 pm
                                                                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Wed May 12, 2010 10:02 pm
                                                            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Eelco de Groot Sat May 08, 2010 4:53 pm
                                                                  Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ralph Stoesser Sat May 08, 2010 7:03 pm
            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Vincent Diepeveen Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:10 pm
                  Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:24 pm
                        Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation grzegorzs Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:36 pm
                  Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Dann Corbit Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:43 pm
                        Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Vincent Diepeveen Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:43 pm
                              Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Vincent Diepeveen Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:44 pm
                                    Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Joona Kiiski Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:55 pm
                                          Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Vincent Diepeveen Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:30 pm
                                                Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:30 pm
                                                      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Vincent Diepeveen Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:11 pm
                                                            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:31 pm
                                                                  Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Vincent Diepeveen Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:57 pm
                                                            Crazy talk Ben-Hur Carlos Langoni Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:07 pm
                                                                  Re: Crazy talk Vincent Diepeveen Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:36 pm
                                                Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ben Stoker Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:07 pm
                                                      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Vincent Diepeveen Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:54 pm
                              Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Robert Hyatt Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:27 pm
                                    Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Dann Corbit Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:30 pm
                              Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Wylie Garvin Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:00 pm
      Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Tu Ngoc Trung Sun May 27, 2012 2:22 am
            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Ferdinand Mosca Sun May 27, 2012 10:01 am
                  Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Tu Ngoc Trung Mon May 28, 2012 3:19 am
            Re: Stockfish - material balance/imbalance evaluation Eelco de Groot Mon May 28, 2012 4:19 am
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