Are these persons incompetent ?

[Joachim Wolfram, PhD.]

Why doesn't someone play the two against each other? Strelka vs. Rybka? How does that sound?

[AdminX]

Why doesn't someone play the two against each other? Strelka vs. Rybka? How does that sound?

Or get out a dual or better system load your favorite GUI in analysis mode using both engines and play over say 100 GM games or more and view the output of both engines while recording the results using a screen capture util and then post your results for all to view.

[Joachim Wolfram, PhD.]

What a capital idea Ted. Unfortunately I do not have knowledge required to do this. That is why I suggested that someone pit the two programs against each other.

[chessfurby]

Hi

No i do not think that they are incompetent but ... without having the rybka code all they could see is ... that some part or the entire strelka engine was written in C.
So with all respect, even a not so smart person knew back then that Brians and Danns comments were just giving their best opinion but based on very limited and/or incomplete evidence.

Hypothesis:
Strelka is parts of rybka with a different frontend. Maybe a semi hacked version with the io- parts rewritten while the main engine remains unchanged. At least darkavengers data supports that.


Cheers

[Uri Blass]

Hi Uri,

Well I don't agree about the "simply stole". I don't think there is anything simple about that and besides it would be a criminal act. Maybe even in Russia, they must have some laws there.

I wrote some more. But I think I'd better stop speculating now, as that serves not much purpose.

Regards, Eelco

I suggested it as a possibility.
The second possibility is that he translated the exe file of rybka to C
seems to be something with smaller probability but it is also possible that he did it.

It is clear that it is not a clone.

Note that I read your private message and I do not think that there is something wrong in suggesting the possibility that he stole rybka's code.

The wrong thing is releasing something that is so similiar to rybka both in evaluation and search.

This cannot be not on purpose and it is the same as copying some chapters from a book and changing some other chapters and claiming the book is your book.

Uri

[MartinBryant]

I don't know about you, but I live in a democracy.
Under this system we have a wonderful thing called freedom of speech.
It allows all of us to express opinions and discuss them openly without fear of retribution, ridicule, abuse or simply being shouted down.

Also under this system, any person is allowed to not involve themselves in the discussion should they not want to be.

It would be a very sad day for this forum should any thread be cut just because someone else was sick of the debate. They can simply bow out and read the other interesting posts.

[Dann Corbit]

Hi Uri,

Well I don't agree about the "simply stole". I don't think there is anything simple about that and besides it would be a criminal act. Maybe even in Russia, they must have some laws there.

I wrote some more. But I think I'd better stop speculating now, as that serves not much purpose.

Regards, Eelco

I suggested it as a possibility.
The second possibility is that he translated the exe file of rybka to C
seems to be something with smaller probability but it is also possible that he did it.

It is clear that it is not a clone.

Note that I read your private message and I do not think that there is something wrong in suggesting the possibility that he stole rybka's code.

The wrong thing is releasing something that is so similiar to rybka both in evaluation and search.

This cannot be not on purpose and it is the same as copying some chapters from a book and changing some other chapters and claiming the book is your book.

Uri

Reverse engineering of code is not illegal. It is done all the time.
There are some products that have a specific requirement not to reverse engineer composed into their license. I do not remember if Rybka is one of them.

Certainly, Strelka is not identical in search and eval to Rybka or it would not be 300 points weaker.

[GS]

Hi Uri,

Well I don't agree about the "simply stole". I don't think there is anything simple about that and besides it would be a criminal act. Maybe even in Russia, they must have some laws there.

I wrote some more. But I think I'd better stop speculating now, as that serves not much purpose.

Regards, Eelco

I suggested it as a possibility.
The second possibility is that he translated the exe file of rybka to C
seems to be something with smaller probability but it is also possible that he did it.

It is clear that it is not a clone.

Note that I read your private message and I do not think that there is something wrong in suggesting the possibility that he stole rybka's code.

The wrong thing is releasing something that is so similiar to rybka both in evaluation and search.

This cannot be not on purpose and it is the same as copying some chapters from a book and changing some other chapters and claiming the book is your book.

Uri

Reverse engineering of code is not illegal. It is done all the time.
There are some products that have a specific requirement not to reverse engineer composed into their license. I do not remember if Rybka is one of them.

Certainly, Strelka is not identical in search and eval to Rybka or it would not be 300 points weaker.

How did you came to that weird strength judgement?
It is of similar strength as the Rybka 1.0 Beta.
(No idea for the 'new' Strelka UCI 1.8 with 1/3 size.)

Guenther

[MartinBryant]

I certainly wouldn't rule out a plain and simple decompilation as a possible technique.
My university project was an assembler to Pascal decompiler with high level construct reconstitution.
I've no idea what the state of the art is today, but I'm sure they must be very good after all these years.

[fern]

Clearly they are not incompetent persons, but they are persons, so prone to mistake.
Dann Corbit could be mistaken, Bryant could be, you could be, even me could be

Fernando