Diep 2.0

[Adam Hair]

Hi,
I made a match inside Arena 3.5.1 installed as wb engine with comandline parameter winboard. The match was against Zeus 1.27 (2052), 40 moves in 3 minutes, ponder off:

Diep 2.0 - Zeus 1.27 : 10,0/20 8-8-4 (1010101=11=1==010000)
There is a little problem: Diep is pondering and I am not able to stop this behavior (permanent_brain false does not help).

Hi Werner,

What OS are you running? Diep 2.0 does not run at all in Arena, although it can be installed. I used winboard as command line parameter and Winboard (old) as protocol.

It can't be installed into Winboard GUI, since it gives an error.

Thanks,
CL

Hi CL
I use Windows 10 64bit, Arena 3.5.1; The engine is installed as normal wb engine, not old wb and I have a link to the .ini file.
Commandline Parameter is "winboard" without the marks.

And of Course - I will not test the engine after the message from author.

Thanks, Werner. Too bad re: testing, maybe eventually Vincent might relent.

I can think of more likely events, such as pigs flying

[BrendanJNorman]

Abandonware as you think of it simply does not exist.
It's a myth mostly propagated by kids, who like to download everything from the internet.

It can only be legal, if the copyright holder gives his permission.
Otherwise file for the US copyright law paragraph 302...
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html

Let's not pretend that this is a copyright matter.

Does an active legal copyright currently exist for Diep? And would Vincent gain anything in court, assuming an initial cease and desist notice was ignored? This is debatable at least, which is why most of you guys steal each others ideas/code without a care in the world.

Which brings me to my next point...

Moreover do you think moderation removed the link (red text!) just out of fun?
No need to request more answers from me, I have better things to do.
In case of an urgent need for more talk about the issue, there are institutions who care.

It's a moral issue, not legal.

And the download was removed by me long before moderation came along, and I stated CLEARLY that I'd removed it too.

Moderation removed the now invalid link to do as they often do on this site...

To make a public show of virtue, authority and say:

"we are very powerful, create/enforce the rules strictly (unless Terry is bullying people), and even put RED lines through expired links to do so!"

That's right. It was an expired link, and making a big deal and changing font color to red and all this nonsense, was just virtue-signalling (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... Signalling)

A lot of virtue-signalling goes on on this forum, whilst the hypocritical party doing so then hops over to a place (whose name is immortal in computer chess circles ) to pick flowers.

Nevermind though, plenty of good engines already and Rodent/ProDeo is so tweakable that you can essentially create many more.

[BrendanJNorman]

Diep development stopped in december 2012, though if you'd fix just the bugs in search, some are so stupid...

Yet it would be very fulltime work to test all those bugs out.

Testers are such idiots...

Hi Vincent,

Could you share what it was that made you so bitter?

You've been blessed with a decent mind and some clear talents, but it seems that this has only served to make you look at the world with condescension.

How did you find a thread talking about Diep (within hours) if you despise the people who admire your work, have no interest in it, and you're so busy with other pursuits?

I have given up hobbies in the past (for which I was also infamous) and you'd never find me lurking on a related forum nowadays.

Yet, I do not show hostility to those who still enjoy it (or forbid users of my "art" from doing so all these years later).

I'm sure you have your reasons though.

[syzygy]

Abandonware as you think of it simply does not exist.
It's a myth mostly propagated by kids, who like to download everything from the internet.

It can only be legal, if the copyright holder gives his permission.
Otherwise file for the US copyright law paragraph 302...
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html

Let's not pretend that this is a copyright matter.

Of course it is.

Does an active legal copyright currently exist for Diep?

Obviously it does. It will exist until January 1 after the 70th anniversary of Vincent's death. And I am happy to see that he is alive and well.

Moderation removed the now invalid link to do as they often do on this site...

To make a public show of virtue, authority and say:

"we are very powerful, create/enforce the rules strictly (unless Terry is bullying people), and even put RED lines through expired links to do so!"

Yes, you should have been banned instead.

[BrendanJNorman]

Abandonware as you think of it simply does not exist.
It's a myth mostly propagated by kids, who like to download everything from the internet.

It can only be legal, if the copyright holder gives his permission.
Otherwise file for the US copyright law paragraph 302...
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html

Let's not pretend that this is a copyright matter.

Of course it is.

In that case, you should have no trouble citing a past example where a copyright infringement was litigated over a 15 year old, non-available chess engine - especially as an I.P lawyer yourself (I'll be waiting...)

Unless you are mentally retarded, you are fully aware that NUMEROUS sites exist around the web (that I have seen dozens of this site's members also at) that contain CURRENTLY sold commercial engines to be "shared".

Have the owners of Houdini, Komodo etc taken ANYONE to court over it?

Or over stolen code? Never.

Things become legal, when they become legal...if you get my drift.

Until now, there has been no such precedent set in the nerdy hobby of ours.

Does an active legal copyright currently exist for Diep?

Obviously it does. It will exist until January 1 after the 70th anniversary of Vincent's death. And I am happy to see that he is alive and well.

How would you suppose it'd be enforced over the net for a chess engine like Diep?

Assuming it appeared on everyone's favorite chess engine pirate site, would their servers be DDOSed and the owner's home rushed by the FBI?

I'm betting nothing at all would happen, besides some bickering online like this.

Yes, you should have been banned instead.

Go ahead, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Unlike some of you guys, I don't derive my sense of significance from virtue-signalling on a computer chess forum. I live in the real world.

Don't get me confused, I respect the author's wishes, and this is why I removed the engine from my hosting site (and my computer), but the back-slapping and virtue-signalling I see here is ridiculous.

As well as the hypocrisy coming from those who themselves steal engines and/or code on a regular basis.

[Ovyron]

Does an active legal copyright currently exist for Diep? And would Vincent gain anything in court, assuming an initial cease and desist notice was ignored?

Exactly! The judge would laugh and fine Vincent for making the court waste time.

The main thing is that Vincent can't sue for damages because he's not selling Diep!

You might have known about ROM sites, that have old video games available in a format that can be played in "Emulators", that allow people to play them in a convenient manner in their computers.

Well, it turns out some ROMs are actually hard to find, as those sites have actually removed them from download, because they've been contacted by Nintendo and such, because those games hosted there are potentially hurting Nintendo's sales, because they're currently selling them in their Virtual Console, Nintendo/Snes Mini, and such.

But those sites are still full of ROMs, most owned by Nintendo, why does Nintendo doesn't care about them? Why isn't Nintendo protecting their copyright? They could easily demand all their games to be taken down.

Well, they're not selling those games anymore, they're abandonware, and as such, Nintendo knows that if they tried to sue those sites for hosting their ROMs "illegally" (without permission), they would lose, because no damage is being done.

In fact, it's free promotion, I've actually read anecdotes about people buying Nintendo's games on the latest consoles because they played a ROM (without owning the game) and they wanted to continue the experience in the latest sequels. Nintendo has won money thanks to ROMs (heh, at one point they directly benefitted; there was a bad rip of a ROM from some game that had bugs in it that didn't happen in the original game. When they released that game in their virtual console, it had the ROM's bug! So instead of bothering to rip the thing from the original source, they just downloaded a free ROM and re-sold it.)

Another example is the Yamaha Softsynthesizer S-YXG50. They stopped selling it, and it became abandonware. Now you can download either the driver version (WinXP) or the VSTi version (VSTHost), and it makes Midi music sound awesome, and Yamaha isn't going after the sites that host the things.

What makes Nintendo or Yamaha different than Vincent? That he doesn't know he would lose the case, unless he put Diep for sale again.

In any case, I'm glad to see people deleting the engine from their hosts, I say, let them bury it, hopefully, the less people know about Diep, the more chance of an actually deserving engine being used.

[syzygy]

Have the owners of Houdini, Komodo etc taken ANYONE to court over it?

Oh my...

You believe that something illegal becomes legal when people go unpunished.
You believe that valid copyrights somehow cease to exist when they are being violated.

Believe what you want, but that does not make it true.

But I do hope that the moderators here take action to stop the propagation of your lies on this senstivie topic.

[syzygy]

Does an active legal copyright currently exist for Diep? And would Vincent gain anything in court, assuming an initial cease and desist notice was ignored?

Exactly! The judge would laugh and fine Vincent for making the court waste time.

And yet another utterly misinformed and disrespectful posting.
Of course Vincent would win a court case. The amount of damages awarded will depend on the jurisdiction. At least within the EU you'll start by paying all his lawyer fees.

[kgburcham]

Does an active legal copyright currently exist for Diep?

I have a legal copy I purchased from Vincent.

kgburcham

[BrendanJNorman]

Have the owners of Houdini, Komodo etc taken ANYONE to court over it?

Oh my...

You believe that something illegal becomes legal when people go unpunished.
You believe that valid copyrights somehow cease to exist when they are being violated.

I had a "debate" with another Dutch guy on here once before, and it seems that some of you guys (certainly with the exception of Ed, who seems to have critical thinking ability) like to make sweeping assumptions and deduce what you like, essentially putting words in another person's mouth.

This other guy did exactly the same thing (also accusing me of stealing software actually+arrogantly demanding to see receipts! - that is until Houdart came and said "err Brendan is my customer...").

Where did I say "illegal becomes legal when people go unpunished"?

Plus, you've also done the very manly thing by completely avoiding answering the questions I posed to you...

Nice way for a lawyer to put down an argument, huh?

To not even address it. You must be making the big bucks.

But I do hope that the moderators here take action to stop the propagation of your lies on this senstivie topic.

"Propagation of lies"??? "Sensitive topic"?

ROFL... I don't see any lies from me, and the only one crying is you.

No need to get all sensitive bro.

Oh wait...you lied when you deliberately misquoted me, thus creating a straw-man which would be easier to take down than what my assertion truly was.

I can see through this type of intellectual dishonesty in my sleep.

Why not address any of the reasonable questions I put to you?

Don't say "not worth my time" - that's high school excuses.

Please tell me you are behind the scenes in your legal work? This is weak argumentation for the average Joe, but for a lawyer...?

P.S. We both know that even if I were banned (do it! whatever... ), it would do nothing more than expose once again, the tendency of this forum to lean toward mob-justice (as long as the mob is made up of Germans and/or Dutch guys), group-thinking tendencies... and suppression of opposing ideas.

New engines which are unknown to the gang must be clones... New ideas/opinions rejected by the gang are "nonsense"...Even new members who have some knowledge of computer chess must be dupe accounts (I've been accused of being someone else before). At the same time, if a member is truly new, and doesn't know how to setup a WB engine or something, they're called "stupid", or an "idiot" by many of you guys.

So tolerant...

You're right, best to ban me - Otherwise I might say something "insensitive" when your friends insult an innocent chess enthusiast.

And don't get it confused - I will.

BTW...Do you agree with your buddy Vincent that engine testers are "idiots"? Not going to answer, right?

That's computer chess through the eyes of TalkChess.

And why so many people leave the hobby.