Ivy Bridge vs Sandy Bridge for computer chess

Discussion of chess software programming and technical issues.

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syzygy
Posts: 5569
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:56 pm

Re: Ivy Bridge vs Sandy Bridge for computer chess

Post by syzygy »

diep wrote:It's again another nonsense post yours about Ivy Bridge.
Sure.
To overclock an ivy bridge you first need a good chip and odds you have one is small. Then you need to remove the heatspreader and replace the grease. There goes your warranty. 99.9% of the guys who overclock now a Nehalem or Sandy Bridge will not remove the heatspreader of ivy bridge, and intel knew that.
Of course removing the IB heatspreader is nonsense. Yes, it can be done, and yes, it is a very good way to destroy your chip.

IB can be overclocked just like SB can. Core temperatures are higher, but that doesn't mean the chip doesn't run. The temperature inside the case will be lower, because IB simply produces less heat.
And of course in The Netherlands you'll get one that doesn't overclock well with bigger odds than elsewhere.
Sure, it's all a big conspiracy.

Since you're not going to do your homework, here's a link:
Ivy Bridge Overclocking is almost identical to Sandy Bridge overclocking in that it is basically a CPU which is meant to be overclocked through the multiplier and not the base clock (BCLK). Sandy Bridge overclocking brought a whole new level of simplicity to the overclocking realm, a user only needed to change a few voltages, and change some ratios and they were easily granted a huge performance increase. With Ivy Bridge things get a lot easier as the CPU overclocks a lot further with better cooling and is more optimized towards higher memory and base clock speeds, thus making ambient overclocking much simpler and easier for the average overclocker. There is almost no need to increase the secondary CPU voltages, such as VTT, with Ivy Bridge on air/water cooling as the memory controller can already push the memory up to its limits without this. The same thing goes for base clock, while with Sandy Bridge the max base clocks we saw were pretty limited, around 105-107 on average, almost all Ivy Bridge CPUs will do 110mhz easily with LN2 cooling, and will scale way above that with the cold. With Sandy Bridge we same some very odd clock walls, as well as limitations with the IMC in which the memory controller couldn’t readily handle the maximum memory multiplier and BCLK increase over a few MHz from stock, and this limited overall memory performance. However Ivy Bridge is more unlocked than Sandy Bridge, it offers many more memory multipliers and even adds in a second divider so that you can run memory at different speeds in more friendly increments (like 2000 MHz and 2133 MHz). Ivy Bridge also doesn’t have the invisible clock walls which Sandy Bridge possessed, the CPU can overclock under the cold and scales very well in all aspects with cold temperature. However under air cooling Ivy Bridge exhibits much higher temperatures during full load due to its 22nm process, which will probably only get better though cooling optimizations and better contact between the IHS and the CPU Die. We will explore why Ivy Bridge has such high operating temperatures on air OC. This guide can be used for all "K" series Ivy Bridge SKUs.
Temperature
Ivy Bridge does get HOT, but do not let that scare you from overclocking your CPU or straying away from Ivy completely.
Thermal protection keeps your CPU from roasting too much and will turn off by itself once it reaches a certain temperature.
TJ Max for Ivy Bridge is 105C, but staying cool during stress-testing or overclocking is important! I like to stay below 85C, but during stress-testing, it's okay to go 90C.
diep
Posts: 1822
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:54 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Ivy Bridge vs Sandy Bridge for computer chess

Post by diep »

syzygy wrote:
diep wrote:It's again another nonsense post yours about Ivy Bridge.
Sure.


[snip] Why do you keep posting this nonsense.

It's tougher to overclock it. period.

Just acknowledge you were wrong and always are.
syzygy
Posts: 5569
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:56 pm

Re: Ivy Bridge vs Sandy Bridge for computer chess

Post by syzygy »

diep wrote:
syzygy wrote:
diep wrote:It's again another nonsense post yours about Ivy Bridge.
Sure.


[snip] Why do you keep posting this nonsense.

It's tougher to overclock it. period.

Just acknowledge you were wrong and always are.
:P :P :P :P :P
S.Taylor
Posts: 8514
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: Ivy Bridge vs Sandy Bridge for computer chess

Post by S.Taylor »

diep wrote:
syzygy wrote:
diep wrote:You never overclocked something yourself obviously.
Funny way of admitting I have bit more understandig of thermodynamics than you.
Painful to admit something for you?

It's again another nonsense post yours about Ivy Bridge.

To overclock an ivy bridge you first need a good chip and odds you have one is small. Then you need to remove the heatspreader and replace the grease. There goes your warranty. 99.9% of the guys who overclock now a Nehalem or Sandy Bridge will not remove the heatspreader of ivy bridge, and intel knew that.

Then some components nowadays are inside the chip so you can't modify those.

Then to find out of course you don't have an Ivy Bridge that overclocks well. Variety in 22 nm is far greater than in previous proces technologies. And of course in The Netherlands you'll get one that doesn't overclock well with bigger odds than elsewhere.

A few hardware architects and hardcore overclockers will manage this, after destroying the first 2 Ivy Bridge cpu's they have in their hands.

So practical Sandy Bridge will overclock a lot better. So Ivy Bridge is a droop for the computerchess guys.
Are you saying that if i had a Sandy Bridge, i might like to see about overclocking it, but with my Ivy Bridge (3770), it is better to leave it as it is?
diep
Posts: 1822
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:54 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Ivy Bridge vs Sandy Bridge for computer chess

Post by diep »

S.Taylor wrote:
diep wrote:
syzygy wrote:
diep wrote:You never overclocked something yourself obviously.
Funny way of admitting I have bit more understandig of thermodynamics than you.
Painful to admit something for you?

It's again another nonsense post yours about Ivy Bridge.

To overclock an ivy bridge you first need a good chip and odds you have one is small. Then you need to remove the heatspreader and replace the grease. There goes your warranty. 99.9% of the guys who overclock now a Nehalem or Sandy Bridge will not remove the heatspreader of ivy bridge, and intel knew that.

Then some components nowadays are inside the chip so you can't modify those.

Then to find out of course you don't have an Ivy Bridge that overclocks well. Variety in 22 nm is far greater than in previous proces technologies. And of course in The Netherlands you'll get one that doesn't overclock well with bigger odds than elsewhere.

A few hardware architects and hardcore overclockers will manage this, after destroying the first 2 Ivy Bridge cpu's they have in their hands.

So practical Sandy Bridge will overclock a lot better. So Ivy Bridge is a droop for the computerchess guys.
Are you saying that if i had a Sandy Bridge, i might like to see about overclocking it, but with my Ivy Bridge (3770), it is better to leave it as it is?
From all the attempts trying to overcock sandy bridge versus ivy bridge, we see a higher overclock of Sandy bridge on average.

Some Ivy Bridge cpu's overclock really bad. The explanation there from the hardware architects is that the 22 nm proces gives more fluctuations.

I'm sure it's possible for intel to calculate which cheapskate grease to use so that in case of overclocking you can't remove more watts easily than the grease allows for Ivy Bridge.

Seems that's what they have been doing.

So overclock of Ivy bridge *on average*, without removing the heatspreader, will be lower.

Clustering is the only cheap option now.

Good news for Mellanox...

A manufacturer, Intel, can do this of course only if they know for sure AMD is not going to release a good chip any soon.
S.Taylor
Posts: 8514
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: Ivy Bridge vs Sandy Bridge for computer chess

Post by S.Taylor »

diep wrote:
S.Taylor wrote:
diep wrote:
syzygy wrote:
diep wrote:You never overclocked something yourself obviously.
Funny way of admitting I have bit more understandig of thermodynamics than you.
Painful to admit something for you?

It's again another nonsense post yours about Ivy Bridge.

To overclock an ivy bridge you first need a good chip and odds you have one is small. Then you need to remove the heatspreader and replace the grease. There goes your warranty. 99.9% of the guys who overclock now a Nehalem or Sandy Bridge will not remove the heatspreader of ivy bridge, and intel knew that.

Then some components nowadays are inside the chip so you can't modify those.

Then to find out of course you don't have an Ivy Bridge that overclocks well. Variety in 22 nm is far greater than in previous proces technologies. And of course in The Netherlands you'll get one that doesn't overclock well with bigger odds than elsewhere.

A few hardware architects and hardcore overclockers will manage this, after destroying the first 2 Ivy Bridge cpu's they have in their hands.

So practical Sandy Bridge will overclock a lot better. So Ivy Bridge is a droop for the computerchess guys.
Are you saying that if i had a Sandy Bridge, i might like to see about overclocking it, but with my Ivy Bridge (3770), it is better to leave it as it is?
From all the attempts trying to overcock sandy bridge versus ivy bridge, we see a higher overclock of Sandy bridge on average.

Some Ivy Bridge cpu's overclock really bad. The explanation there from the hardware architects is that the 22 nm proces gives more fluctuations.

I'm sure it's possible for intel to calculate which cheapskate grease to use so that in case of overclocking you can't remove more watts easily than the grease allows for Ivy Bridge.

Seems that's what they have been doing.

So overclock of Ivy bridge *on average*, without removing the heatspreader, will be lower.

Clustering is the only cheap option now.

Good news for Mellanox...

A manufacturer, Intel, can do this of course only if they know for sure AMD is not going to release a good chip any soon.

Then Ivy Bridge is a downgrade of Sandy Bridge!

Nice to know!
bupalo
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:04 pm

Re: Ivy Bridge vs Sandy Bridge for computer chess

Post by bupalo »

Larry I have upgrade to a ivy bridge and Komodo is doing quite well compare to the old computer and to the other engines 1100 kn/s