Proposing: The REAL World Computer Chess Championship

[Peter Skinner]

You asked for my address at the time and then told me the CPU was on the way. I had promised any prize we won to the GM you had booked to commentate as you had cancelled him at short notice.

If i ran an event with a promised prize the fact that the postage money was not supplied by the sponsor would not stop me making dam sure the prizes got sent out on time.

your excuse does not make sense as I have an email from you saying the prize is on the way.

I sent out emails stating the prizes were packed and going to be sent, you are correct. Around that time I was diagnosed with Astrocytoma (I've spoken about on these very forums several times) and _did not_ have the money to personally send the prizes out. AMD was supposed to make a deposit in my PayPal account to cover the expenses for shipping but never did.

That is the brutal truth of the matter. I was undergoing chemo and radiation treatments at the Cross Cancer Institute here in Alberta, and since then have had 4 surgeries. I barely had enough money to feed my children and keep a roof over our heads.

What do you want Harvey? Blood? I'll send some of that as well.

There is the real reason it wasn't sent. So send me your address and I will send you the processor, the t-shirt, and the Blue Rodeo music CD AMD provided. As I said I still have everything.

So since you have stated that you won't be participating in any event that I hold, you have really no purpose in this thread other than to make yourself a pain in the ass, and are doing a fantastic job of it.

[Harvey Williamson]

You asked for my address at the time and then told me the CPU was on the way. I had promised any prize we won to the GM you had booked to commentate as you had cancelled him at short notice.

If i ran an event with a promised prize the fact that the postage money was not supplied by the sponsor would not stop me making dam sure the prizes got sent out on time.

your excuse does not make sense as I have an email from you saying the prize is on the way.

I sent out emails stating the prizes were packed and going to be sent, you are correct. Around that time I was diagnosed with Astrocytoma (I've spoken about on these very forums several times) and _did not_ have the money to personally send the prizes out. AMD was supposed to make a deposit in my PayPal account to cover the expenses for shipping but never did.

That is the brutal truth of the matter. I was undergoing chemo and radiation treatments at the Cross Cancer Institute here in Alberta, and since then have had 4 surgeries. I barely had enough money to feed my children and keep a roof over our heads.

What do you want Harvey? Blood? I'll send some of that as well.

There is the real reason it wasn't sent. So send me your address and I will send you the processor, the t-shirt, and the Blue Rodeo music CD AMD provided. As I said I still have everything.

So since you have stated that you won't be participating in any event that I hold, you have really no purpose in this thread other than to make yourself a pain in the ass, and are doing a fantastic job of it.

Peter, why is it only today you tell me this? You had my mail address and have always had my email address. Me and s few others have always wondered what happened to our prizes. Do AMD know they are still in your basement?

If you had sent a direct email at the time I am sure i would have been sympathetic but you did not. You lead me to believe the prize was in the post. So i told the GM his compensation would soon be with him. Even if you sent an email sometime later asking me to send you the postage money that would have been fine but no you stayed silent.

[jdart]

[

That is what will be decided in September.

Ok, but usually you'd have a candidates match first.

That is how the human World Championship was handled after the war. The 1938 AVRO tournament (a round-robin) was used as the basis for qualification to the 1948 World Championship. The top players went into the candidates matches (well, not exactly, but that was the idea).

[Peter Skinner]

Peter, why is it only today you tell me this? You had my mail address and have always had my email address. Me and s few others have always wondered what happened to our prizes. Do AMD know they are still in your basement?

If you had sent a direct email at the time I am sure i would have been sympathetic but you did not. You lead me to believe the prize was in the post. So i told the GM his compensation would soon be with him. Even if you sent an email sometime later asking me to send you the postage money that would have been fine but no you stayed silent.

To be honest, I was dealing with so much at that time it got lost in the shuffle. Over time, I simply forgot about it. So I apologize.

Having brain tumors really changes a person's life and _everything_ gets pushed to the back burner, and I mean everything. You really don't have a choice in the matter. All you do is search out and participate in treatment options. I never told anyone at the time because it was my business and I didn't want people to know.

So once again, I apologize.

Peter

[Peter Skinner]

[

That is what will be decided in September.

Ok, but usually you'd have a candidates match first.

That is how the human World Championship was handled after the war. The 1938 AVRO tournament (a round-robin) was used as the basis for qualification to the 1948 World Championship. The top players went into the candidates matches (well, not exactly, but that was the idea).

We could certainly do that. Have the candidates tournament in September and the WCCC in February with the top 14? qualifiers moving on?

Peter

[Harvey Williamson]

Peter, why is it only today you tell me this? You had my mail address and have always had my email address. Me and s few others have always wondered what happened to our prizes. Do AMD know they are still in your basement?

If you had sent a direct email at the time I am sure i would have been sympathetic but you did not. You lead me to believe the prize was in the post. So i told the GM his compensation would soon be with him. Even if you sent an email sometime later asking me to send you the postage money that would have been fine but no you stayed silent.

To be honest, I was dealing with so much at that time it got lost in the shuffle. Over time, I simply forgot about it. So I apologize.

Having brain tumors really changes a person's life and _everything_ gets pushed to the back burner, and I mean everything. You really don't have a choice in the matter. All you do is search out and participate in treatment options. I never told anyone at the time because it was my business and I didn't want people to know.

So once again, I apologize.

Peter

it is never to late perhaps now you could email all those prize winners asking if they still would like the prize you have in your basement?

[jdart]

Would make more sense that way IMO.

--Jon

[hgm]

The Championship 48 game matches will be played 24/7 over the internet with 4 games per day so everyone in every time zone can tune in and watch games without having to stay up all night to watch.

This format highly biases the chances in favor of the ruling champion, and I don't see that as very desirable. Why not use a format where the best is most likely to win?

[kgburcham]

Your poll question does not make sense it says as a participant would......
How do you know who the participants are?

As a potential participant, would you allow it?
Spectators really shouldn't have a say and should be let to those that _participate_ in the event.

Peter I read here as much as you, but you might have some info that I do no not.
So the question is: Why did you single out these two programs from a large list of programs?

This is Sadats SCCT Rating list, now why would you go down this list and leave out Komodo, Critter, Stockfish, Hiarcs, Shredder, etc etc etc.... What do you know that we do not know about clean original code Peter Skinner?

Ok lets just base it on nice, Uri is one of the nicest guys here. No one suspects Movei as dirty. What prove do we have that Movei is clean? Can it enter? On what grounds if you eliminate H and R

Most of the top programmers in the world of Computer Chess cannot agree on the correct wording to describe what original clean code is.
What if your poll returns a no? Are you going to choose another group until you complete your poll?
We do not have any prove that Shredder, Pro Deo, and Crafty are clean. The only prove we have these days is they are way down the rating lists. Will they be allowed in?
What about that aggravating (it started this whole mess) Fruit, it is #28 on this list in last place, do you really think Fruit is as clean as it should be?

ICGA says Rybka is banned because it has been inspected, all other programs are legal to enter until a competitor complains again and then the process of inspection starts over again.
If you are not going to subject all to a drug test, at least subject all to a random drug test, it usually keeps it clean.
All should be suspect to the same degree in a competitive event until proven otherwise.

1 Houdini 2.0t3 Pro x64 6c : 3376 17 16 1150 73.6 % 3198 36.9 %
2 Houdini 2.0z Pro x64 6c : 3375 16 16 1350 73.9 % 3195 34.3 %
3 Houdini 2.0c Pro x64 6c : 3360 15 15 1350 72.1 % 3195 38.1 %
4 Houdini2Baracuda Pro x64 6c : 3344 16 16 1000 69.0 % 3204 45.9 %
5 Critter 1.6 x64 6c : 3310 13 13 1350 65.7 % 3197 50.6 %
6 Critter 1.4 x64 6c : 3306 15 15 1150 67.0 % 3183 47.0 %
7 Ivanhoe B46fE.02 x64 6c : 3297 13 13 1350 63.9 % 3197 50.1 %
8 Stockfish 120430P x64 6c : 3295 14 14 1250 64.1 % 3194 48.7 %
9 Ivanhoe B46fC x64 6c : 3288 14 14 1200 63.5 % 3192 47.4 %
10 Stockfish 2.2.2 JA x64 6c : 3288 15 15 1100 62.9 % 3196 45.6 %
11 Deep Rybka 4.1 x64 6c : 3288 14 13 1350 62.7 % 3198 47.0 %
12 Vitruvius 1.11C x64 6c : 3277 13 13 1350 61.2 % 3198 49.0 %
13 Fire 2.2 xTreme x64 6c : 3273 13 13 1350 60.6 % 3198 48.5 %
14 Naum 4.2 x64 6c : 3184 14 14 1350 47.5 % 3202 42.5 %
15 Komodo 4.0 x64 1c : 3172 14 14 1350 45.6 % 3202 41.3 %
16 Equinox 1.35 x64 6c : 3137 15 15 1250 40.7 % 3202 38.7 %
17 Deep Fritz 13 w32 6c : 3135 14 14 1350 40.3 % 3203 44.6 %
18 Spike 1.4 Leiden w32 6c : 3125 14 14 1350 38.9 % 3204 41.3 %
19 Chiron 1.1a x64 6c : 3114 14 15 1350 37.4 % 3204 40.2 %
20 Deep Junior 13.3 x64 6c : 3103 17 17 1050 35.0 % 3210 39.1 %
21 Deep Fritz 12 w32 6c : 3100 15 15 1150 37.0 % 3192 42.1 %
22 Deep Junior 13 x64 6c : 3092 15 15 1300 35.0 % 3200 36.4 %
23 Protector 1.4.0 x64 6c : 3090 15 15 1350 34.0 % 3205 36.4 %
24 Deep Shredder 12 x64 6c : 3088 15 15 1350 33.7 % 3205 38.0 %
25 Hiarcs 13.2 w32 6c : 3084 15 15 1350 33.2 % 3205 34.9 %
26 Spark 1.0 x64 6c : 3083 14 15 1350 33.1 % 3205 40.5 %
27 Zappa Mexico II x64 6c : 3063 15 15 1350 30.4 % 3206 35.4 %
28 Fruit 090705 x64 6c : 2988 18 18 1150 23.1 % 3197 29.0 %

[hgm]

I think there are fundamental and severe problems with a tournament where participants are to vote if they want to have other participants in or not. Especially if there are prizes at stake. Why not vote out your strongest competitor?

But as I do not intend to participate, I didn't feel I should try to influence this.

To call such a competition a 'real' World Championship seems a joke. To call your private tourney a 'Real World Championship' in a field where there already exists an organization conducting World Championship seems a bit of a joke anyway. Whether this so-called World Championship is any more 'real' than the one we already have will have to be judged by the World, and is not something that can be claimed beforehand by the organizer. And why it is thought the World would judge so, if exactly the same programs will be excluded as are excluded from the 'official' World Championship, escapes me.

That being said, it is kind of logical that the two mentioned programs are singled out. One being already judged, the other having a reputation as 'king of the clones'. Note that not being mentioned in the poll does not imply you can participate; for many programs the question is not even asked, because it is taken for granted that they cannot. Those that can enter will of course be subject to after-the-fat judgement, as usual.

Note that Fruit is open source, and probably the most studied Chess source ever. You only have to look at the code to realize it is 100% clean.